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Please quote your sources, re: the red highlighted material.
Sure. Look for example at Scientists from the U.K. and the U.S. who are conducting a year long test in hospitals to see if NDE are real. Sam Parnia, a critical-care physician, is one of the lead investigators on this study and it is being co-ordinated with Southampton University’s School of Medicine in England.
The point is that no one I am aware of is finding ANY evidence at all of people seeing or hearing things they could only have seen or heard had they left their body. No one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious
I have read many reports where people do recount all kinds of specific things in the room.
And your citations are?
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious
I have read a lot of reports on NDE's over the years . . .but I don't have a file of links and I don't have to . . . the literature is out there if you care to research it yourself
Oh thats typical. When I make a claim I have to cite my sources to you. When you make a claim you do not. How convenient. Do you think that we are for one second fooled that there is any reason for you not citing your sources other than the simply fact that you do not have any???
It is not one rule for you and one rule for the rest of us. If you do not have back up for your claims, that is fine. But do not lie, pretend you do, but then refuse to present any of it.... and when asked simply insult people with phrases like "close minded" to try and distract from your lack of back up.
I framed it that I was wondering if PERHAPS there may have been trauma disconnecting a person from their innate spirituality. I obviously have no way of knowing if there was or wasn't. I wish people would stick to responding to what is actually written.
Hiding insults in "I wonder if" isn't fooling anyone, except maybe yourself.
What do you think this phenomena is? How is it that so many people who have had a near death experience have all described the same thing? If it isn't " divine" then what causes it?
Some people, because you can't touch it, feel it, smell it, see it, in thier everyday lives, will never be convinced.
And some people, regardless of whether you can touch it or not, feel it or not, smell it or not, will be convinced of just about anything, no matter how ludicrous.
Maybe it would be better however to talk WITH people on this thread rather than ABOUT "some people" in some vague sense?
There are many powerful forces in this world, the most powerful of which may be wishful thinking.
Oh how nice it would be to sooth our survival instinct by uncovering evidence that life continues on even after our death. Better yet, we can even go to a "better place!" I mean, why not, right?
If there was ever an example of ignorance being bliss, it must surely be found in humanities feigned ignorance of our ultimate fate. Facts are our enemy here, peace is found in the lie - and this peculiar example of ignorance is perhaps the most comforting ignorance ever known to man. For those of you who need it, seek shelter in the ignorance, don't search for the truth. It will only do you harm.
Afterall, the forbidden fruit comes from the tree of knowledge.
I think the common experience of a bright light during a NDE may simply be that it is an hallucination caused by the brain malfunctioning. The religious will interpret it as God, Heaven, etc, while nonbelievers will interpret it differently.
I recall that when I was about ten years old, a friend told me that he dreamed that he died and the heat woke him up, but upon awakening found that his electric blanket was turned up too high.
I think the common experience of a bright light during a NDE may simply be that it is an hallucination caused by the brain malfunctioning. The religious will interpret it as God, Heaven, etc, while nonbelievers will interpret it differently.
I recall that when I was about ten years old, a friend told me that he dreamed that he died and the heat woke him up, but upon awakening found that his electric blanket was turned up too high.
Coming back after 10 pages, I see the usual wrangles with responses to requests for some sort of case eliciting a response of well you people think everything came from nothing. Lol and end of discussion. And further on well it's all in chaos theory...look it up and lots of stories about NDE's look it up yourself.
Net result is that nothing beyond vague claims about unexplainable events and some stock theist wriggling has come out of this. And It's a pity because NDE's, like prognostication, ghosts, undersea cities and sculptures on Mars, are quite interesting and would not knock atheism sideways and send us all marching off to church.
All we would like to see is something better than unverified anecdotal claims and stock accusation of closed - mindedness and suggestions to research and prove the theist stuff for ourselves. As if the believers even consider the evidence we put in front of them.
No. If the theist apologists can't make a case, then we shall just have to see whether science can produce anything better.
Coming back after 10 pages, I see the usual wrangles with responses to requests for some sort of case eliciting a response of well you people think everything came from nothing. Lol and end of discussion. And further on well it's all in chaos theory...look it up and lots of stories about NDE's look it up yourself.
Net result is that nothing beyond vague claims about unexplainable events and some stock theist wriggling has come out of this. And It's a pity because NDE's, like prognostication, ghosts, undersea cities and sculptures on Mars, are quite interesting and would not knock atheism sideways and send us all marching off to church.
All we would like to see is something better than unverified anecdotal claims and stock accusation of closed - mindedness and suggestions to research and prove the theist stuff for ourselves. As if the believers even consider the evidence we put in front of them.
No. If the theist apologists can't make a case, then we shall just have to see whether science can produce anything better.
A perfectly rational, reasonable comment on the thread, and the response from theists.
Cue whippersnapper or theophane one of the other theists to barge in and call you rude and hostile.
For some, listening to truth is tantamount to self-flagellation.
Well, as I recall Whippersnapper and theophane are generally ok in exchanges. NDE's are quite interesting but so far I haven't seen any convincing verification of the anecdotal claims. I don't reject them but just need something more definite and then soe research into what could be the cause rather that just assuming that it has to be evidence for a soul and that a soul has to be evidence for a god and a god has to be evidence for a religion.
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