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Old 07-30-2011, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Ohio
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What do you think this phenomena is? How is it that so many people who have had a near death experience have all described the same thing? If it isn't " divine" then what causes it?
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:49 PM
 
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I weigh in not with any informed scientific opinion, but my personal experience with regard to a neurological health problem that did more to convince me that "bright lights" and delusions are more common than we could possibly imagine. I had a benign brain tumor removed from my left temporal lobe 5 years ago. Prior to the tumor being diagnosed, I had the most insanely odd blackouts, tremors, deja vu experiences, and of course grand mal seizures. I saw, heard, and experienced things that to this day (4 years seizure-free) make me doubt my own perception.

The degree to which your brain has a hold on your understanding of reality is total and complete.

Any delusions people have about the fantastic or the supernatural are, in almost every case, a product of that incredibly complex (and easily fooled) universe in your cranium.

The funny thing is, after my experience (where, for about a week, I wasn't sure if I was going to face a death sentence, or mere surgery and total recovery) people kept asking me if I turned to God, or became religious or spiritual. It is 180 degrees the opposite. I completely understood how some people thought they saw a deity speak to them, or a bright light, or some dead relative. The brain can literally do anything to make the fictional appear 100% real. I just received a deeper understanding of the science of my brain. God entered into the conversation precisely never.
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Old 07-30-2011, 11:45 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
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Thank you. This is one of those unexplaineds like the Mystical experience, Voices and feelings of angelic guardianship and alien abductions. There is a tendency to use that as a Gap for God argument. I remember one persistent theist debator (haven't seen him around - I do hope he is feeling better) posting a long anecdotal claim about a NDE subject having all sorts of unexplained information. Don't know what became of that story - or the one about doctor who had demons buzzing around his head.

But even if there is some link with an afterlife rather than just being one of the many funny tricks our mind and body plays on us, for the believers to leap on that as a reason to sign up to a theological belief package is just a leap of faith to a very dubious conclusion.

Your posts gives reason to reserve judgement about this whole NDE thing. My own experience is of an incapacitating pain miraculously clearing up (to my considerable embarrassment) just as the doctor arrived - and of course I hadn't been praying to anyone.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Thank you. This is one of those unexplaineds like the Mystical experience, Voices and feelings of angelic guardianship and alien abductions. There is a tendency to use that as a Gap for God argument. I remember one persistent theist debator (haven't seen him around - I do hope he is feeling better) posting a long anecdotal claim about a NDE subject having all sorts of unexplained information. Don't know what became of that story - or the one about doctor who had demons buzzing around his head.

But even if there is some link with an afterlife rather than just being one of the many funny tricks our mind and body plays on us, for the believers to leap on that as a reason to sign up to a theological belief package is just a leap of faith to a very dubious conclusion.

Your posts gives reason to reserve judgement about this whole NDE thing. My own experience is of an incapacitating pain miraculously clearing up (to my considerable embarrassment) just as the doctor arrived - and of course I hadn't been praying to anyone.
Who knows, could've been anxiety-induced, and when you saw the doc, anxiety cleared up?

Unless this stuff can be objectively observed and studied, I refuse to believe in some supernatural healing/white-light visions that have any kind of afterlife significance. Sure, it's possible, but so is anything else, right?
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Old 08-01-2011, 05:48 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
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Originally Posted by OreNative78 View Post
Who knows, could've been anxiety-induced, and when you saw the doc, anxiety cleared up?

Unless this stuff can be objectively observed and studied, I refuse to believe in some supernatural healing/white-light visions that have any kind of afterlife significance. Sure, it's possible, but so is anything else, right?
That was the impression I got. That somehow the mere fact of the doc turning up caused my back to temporarily cure itself. I'm saying that it's the same thing as my Uncle experienced when his wife dragged him along to a faith - healing. His disability (temporarily) cleared up and so I gather is often the case. Such cures are not permanent, but the propagandist value of them when combined with a lot of robes, chanting and foaming at the mouth with drum and sax accompaniment is incalculable.

The other NED and demons stuff requires explanation but I fully agree with you that the significance shouldn't be presupposed. After all Voices (I have experienced this myself) are better understood now and (as I would expect) are something going on in our brain, not something coming from outside. Guardian angel illusions are also being at least considered as a mental effect. This Gap for God is also shrinking.
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Old 08-01-2011, 08:53 AM
 
223 posts, read 241,419 times
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The brain has an incredible hold on the body. Science has really only scratched the surface on these phenomena, so for people to jump to the conclusion of demons & angels & visions being truth, etc., is silly.
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Old 08-01-2011, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Metromess
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It is simply hallucination brought on by parts of the brain shutting down.
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Old 08-01-2011, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Hudson County, NJ
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White lights and NDE are linked to DMT. Which even though some people are saying white lights and NDE has nothing to do with God, those that try DMT seem to come out of it with a more spiritual view of the world.
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Old 08-01-2011, 02:20 PM
 
223 posts, read 241,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowitsshowtime View Post
White lights and NDE are linked to DMT. Which even though some people are saying white lights and NDE has nothing to do with God, those that try DMT seem to come out of it with a more spiritual view of the world.
That's called brain damage.
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Old 08-01-2011, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Hudson County, NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OreNative78 View Post
That's called brain damage.
I'm not sure if I sense sarcasm here or not.

Care to elaborate? Based on what I've read about DMT being natural, found everywhere, and released in your sleep.
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