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Science can observe and make conclusions based on our perceived reality. It cannot observe or make conclusions based anything outside of our perceived reality. Whether there is anything beyond our perceived reality is unknown. I don't know. You don't know. Nobody knows. I make no conclusions about the unknown. To do so would be stupid on my part.
Now, if we want to speculate about the paranormal... well, since I have no reason to conclude anything, sure, it's possible. Or maybe not. I don't know. What I can say is that what I perceive as reality could turn out to not be reality at all. For all you know-it-alls out there, can you prove to me that what you perceive to be reality is in fact reality? No, you can't. You have no way of doing so. How do you know that you are not simply experiencing some sort of dream-state? After all, when you dream at night, that is your reality at the time. And you really can't prove within that dream that it is simply a dream, can you?
A closed mind is the enemy of knowledge. My policy is to not close my mind. If you want to talk about the reality of Sylow's First Theorem in abstract algebra, I can give you the proof in a logical, observable fashion. I know it to be true. I can prove it. I can close my mind on the matter because it's provable. But if you want to make conclusions about the unknown, all I can say is that you are engaging in faith. You don't know; I don't know.
As to the question of "why the hostility," some folks get irritated when others don't share their opinions or faith.
Science can observe and make conclusions based on our perceived reality. It cannot observe or make conclusions based anything outside of our perceived reality. Whether there is anything beyond our perceived reality is unknown. I don't know. You don't know. Nobody knows. I make no conclusions about the unknown. To do so would be stupid on my part.
Now, if we want to speculate about the paranormal... well, since I have no reason to conclude anything, sure, it's possible. Or maybe not. I don't know. What I can say is that what I perceive as reality could turn out to not be reality at all. For all you know-it-alls out there, can you prove to me that what you perceive to be reality is in fact reality? No, you can't. You have no way of doing so. How do you know that you are not simply experiencing some sort of dream-state? After all, when you dream at night, that is your reality at the time. And you really can't prove within that dream that it is simply a dream, can you?
A closed mind is the enemy of knowledge. My policy is to not close my mind. If you want to talk about the reality of Sylow's First Theorem in abstract algebra, I can give you the proof in a logical, observable fashion. I know it to be true. I can prove it. I can close my mind on the matter because it's provable. But if you want to make conclusions about the unknown, all I can say is that you are engaging in faith. You don't know; I don't know.
As to the question of "why the hostility," some folks get irritated when others don't share their opinions or faith.
I agree totally with what you have said here...anything is possible, and the hostility comes from closed minds...when someone doesn't agree with something another believes in, they get all disjoined and hostile....and your right, there is no right or wrong answer here....
If the media, including but not limited to, television programing and the film industry, popular literature, the growth of supernatural beliefs that fall outside of one of the main stream religions (New Age groups, Wicca, Astrology etc.) are any indication, interest in these subjects is on the rise.
Television and Hollywood do not do charity work. The past ten years have seen a preponderance of programing and films that deal with these subjects.
TV "Medium" "The Ghost Whisperer" "Paranormal State" " The Haunted" "A Haunting" "Ghost Hunters" "Ghost Hunters International" "Ghost Adventures"
"Psychic Kids" "Americas most Haunted" and others.
My local cable TV provider has a monthly Astrology "on demand"
The film industry has given us "Paranormal Activity" "The Rite" "A Haunting in Connecticut" "An American Haunting" "The Sixth Sense" "Signs" "The Amityville Horror" (remake) "Insidious" "The Last Exorcism" "The Blair Witch Project" and "1406." There are so many more.
So if you believe in the paranormal what aspects do you believe in? What part interests you most? If you don't believe in it, we know why. You have made that abundantly clear - "there is no proof'
I am also guessing that you have never had such an experience.
My thought is that some people who are wildly irritated by such beliefs, are threatened by anything that they can not control or quantify.
IF you are a believer in ANY of these topics - Which ones?
Why do you think people on CD - and elsewhere, become so hostile?
I for example, do not care about professional sports. I am not sure what they add to society and what the huge fascination with them is all about. Yet I acknowledge that in the US and elsewhere, they are important.
The existence of professional sports, and their massive popularity does not drive me to distraction. I just don't care. But DH would disagree.
Moderator cut: Off Topic
Thanks! ` Sheena12
Sheena, if one did not believe in supernatural or paranormal, then how could some religions exist?
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My thought is that some people who are wildly irritated by such beliefs, are threatened by anything that they can not control or quantify.
you said a mouthfull here, so true! and it answers your own question...two fold. loved this thread, had a lot of fun sharing and reading, thank you! Creme
If you don't believe in it, we know why. You have made that abundantly clear - "there is no proof' I am also guessing that you have never had such an experience.
My thought is that some people who are wildly irritated by such beliefs, are threatened by anything that they can not control or quantify.
Irritation can stem from a lack of logic (in people who demand evidence) or from emotions (in people who claim to be the evidence of existence of the paranormal but have nothing substantive to offer).
Having settled that, it is the second kind who feel threatened as being threatened is purely emotional. Rationality demands evidence, and when presented, the element being investigated becomes a part of rationality. That is how science works. Only beliefs are threatened, while Science grows with challenges.
USS Iwo Jima LPH2 October 1990 suffered a major steam leak instantly killing six engineers, four others died later from their injuries. Most of us believed it was possible their spirits remained. Most of the unusual noises we heard or pumps suddenly turning on by themselves were easily explainable. Other things we experienced weren't so easy but we shrugged them off as thos dead sailors continuing their watch. Later we received a new guy. We half jokingly told him about the ghost and he became hostile and angry strongly proclaiming there's no such thing as ghost. Late one night he was standing engine room cold iron watch. He was later found on the pier curled up in a fetal position. Thirty days in a psyc ward later he was willing to set foot on the ship. Why he was so hostile and firm in his belief we do not know. I prefer to keep an open mind to the possibility but remain skeptical of stories.
I like that Ghost Hunters actively try to disprove some haunting occurrences. As for the scripted ghost story shows, some people just like a good ghost story. Hollywood gets things wrong all the time in the interest of telling the story. Hospital, military, and police stories are good examples of this.
I like that Ghost Hunters actively try to disprove some haunting occurrences. As for the scripted ghost story shows, some people just like a good ghost story. Hollywood gets things wrong all the time in the interest of telling the story. Hospital, military, and police stories are good examples of this.
Ghost Hunters on SciFi (now SyFy) appealed to me, well over a year ago now. At that time, and unlike Ghost Hunters International that often followed, it was about trying to debunk the claims. And they did except on couple of occasions which I wish to have been there to debunk.
Then I noticed it also becoming Hollywood style, more GHI than GH. And I quit watching. Because it was no longer evidence based, it was about excessive dramatization and often "belief" based. I would LOVE to see such evidence someday, and nobody has taken my challenge.
Sheena, if one did not believe in supernatural or paranormal, then how could some religions exist?
Religion is made up too. Doesn't stop billions from believing those ghost stories, either. Look at scientology... here we get to see, in modern times, a completely goofy story take shape as an influential religion, just in the course of the past 60 years or so. People believe that just as strongly as others believe other religions... there is no difference, other than age. They are all just different interpretations of the afterlife and other such things, but they all are dreamed up in the minds of men. L. Ron Hubbard, the creator of scientology, is also a science fiction writer, now THAT is NOT a coincidence!
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Originally Posted by cremebrulee
People, including ministers have told me I possessed a gift...?
See above. Church folk will also tell you a demon needs to be exorcised from your possessed body... for a price, of course.
For those who need a scientific explanation, I find that a reasonable stance to take, but I would draw a line in belittling those who believe psychic experiences in their own lives. It is not their fault that science cannot yet explain certain occurrences in their lives.
I have seen and heard things. I accept these things. This leads me to some degree of belief or acceptance in the experiences of others.
When I was a child I did not know the scientific explanation of gravity nor about the star that supplied me with light. I walked and saw and so 'believed'. That is what we do with psychic phenomena. We experience. It would be lovely to have readily at hand a logical explanation, but just because there is none does not negate the experience.
I tend to believe more what I have experienced than folklore. I have not seen Jesus or Moses or Muhammad or God. I have experienced incredible love in my life. That may be God, but I don't know. I have learned just to accept that I probably will not have explanations during my short duration in this world.
Don't forget that at one time man thought you could not travel faster than (a very low, I forget) mph. We were at one time certain that we would never fly. Now look, we have discovered a particle that travels faster than the speed of light, another supposed impossibility.
All I say is that we do not completely close the door on these odd happenings. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Last edited by goldengrain; 10-05-2011 at 05:42 PM..
Reason: off topic editing
I agree totally with what you have said here...anything is possible, and the hostility comes from closed minds...when someone doesn't agree with something another believes in, they get all disjoined and hostile....and your right, there is no right or wrong answer here....
Again these "anything is possible" and "closed minds" and "hostile" cop outs are just slogans people throw around in place of evidence. You make something up, apparently out of nowhere, can not back it up, and so when people question you... out come the slogans.
The reality however is entirely the opposite of your slogans. As follows:
1) The people who do not take your word for your fantasies and woo are the same people who also think "anything is possible". However saying "anything is possible" is not the same as conceding "therefore what you just made up is credible at all".
2) Similarly this is not close minded. Open minded does not mean "accepting as credible anything you want to simply make up". No it means "accepting anything at all, no matter how out there, when given sufficient reason to do so".
3) Therefore it has nothing to do with hostility towards "people believing different things". The hostility comes from people making up woo, going around espousing it, and when questioned hiding behind quite false... and quite insulting.... slogans like "anything is possible" and "close minded".
If people are getting away with making up lies... often while profiting heavily from those lies... and they are doing so while hiding behind empty and insulting slogans... explain to me why people should NOT be feeling hostile towards them?
Acceptance of paranormal activity suggests the existence of a spirits which leaves open the possibility of God's existence. Therefore, paranormal phenomenon must be discredited. The elitist agenda is, in part, to destroy all religious belief.
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