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Old 10-08-2014, 04:44 AM
Status: "William Wallace" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Hiding from dumb people
14,162 posts, read 15,364,709 times
Reputation: 10616

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I've been around that house too many times to mention.
When I used to be in the pool business I had quite a few customers in the neighborhood.
I never got a creepy vibe from that house. Nothing odd.
In fact the place is a beautifully renovated and landscaped home.
I actually did try to buy it when it last went up for sale but my offer was not accepted.
In reality I probably couldn't afford it but the novelty of owning that home was something I was willing to risk my ass on and I was able to convince my old man to possibly go in on it with me as an investor. I had no intentions to exploit the home in any way, we were just simply going to live there like a normal family.
The property taxes would have been the real killer for me.
Whatever, didn't happen. Guess it wasn't meant to be and probably for the best.
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Old 10-08-2014, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
114 posts, read 104,272 times
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People who do not believe in supernatural occurances easily try to disprove the phenomena.And maybe that alone affords them protection from apparitions. I know that Hollywoods version was ,of course,greatly exaggerated,but the brutality of the murders themselves were demonic whether you believe in that literally or figuratively. One family may buy the Amityville home and live there peaceably for years.Another family may be more sensitive to unexplained feelings of dread and have to move. There are people who admittedly saw things they can't explain but will refuse to believe it for fear of not being considered " intellectual ". I've seen things that convinced me along time ago that there is the unseen and it does play a part in some of our lives. So before anyone tries to unravel my words and insult me, I will tell you now it will not have an affect on my way of thinking.
Good for you, Sheena 12.
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Old 10-17-2014, 11:52 PM
 
2,687 posts, read 2,027,437 times
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I don't buy any of the Lutz's story.

I'm open to the idea of houses being haunted, but I think this was a scam and a hoax.
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Old 10-18-2014, 09:17 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
21,558 posts, read 27,441,962 times
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and I don't buy the Lutz' story either.

That does not mean that I think that the house is a clean dwelling, or that it lies on good ground.
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:33 AM
 
1,385 posts, read 1,352,294 times
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Read the book a long time ago and thought it was complete nonsense. Movie sucks. Watched one of the re-makes/sequels and it was worse.
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Old 10-19-2014, 11:50 PM
 
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Honestly, Sheena, and no, I'm not trying to insult you, and no, I don't know it all (that is for sure) nor do I claim my take on this absolutely has to be right, but...every single thing you describe below is the typical development of an "urban legend"-style story.

You say the old fellows believed something negative...so they spread that around and of course, everyone loves a good ghost story and loves to have their "own personal" haunted house, haunted land or what-have-you. It just makes it feel like life isn't as dull as it actually is. (Again, not trying to be insulting.) Stories like that tend to spread...and get embellished. Someone had a spooky feeling in the area/at the house (whatever the case may be)...next telling: the person felt an actual hand on the back of his neck...next telling: the person felt a hand shove him from behind, he fell and sprained his elbow. And so on. It's sort of like a game of telephone.

After this has all developed (and sensationalist, spooky stories tend to spread FAST), people who are around the area just happen to have chilly feelings and the like. Well, of course. With spook stories circulating for decades, a certain percentage of people will internalize that, then decide they feel creepy when in that particular notorious area (or house). And everyone starts having "a story." "A weird storm came up as I drove up to the house...I stayed a while, was so scared that I left and the storm stopped." (Because after all, sudden storms never happen in the northeast...) "I had a dizzy feeling." Yes. You expected to! Etc.

I don't see how the DeFeo murders were demonic/Satanic. The son went insane and shot everyone. When it comes to "demonic," I'd think more along the lines of beheadings, or hacking them up, or strange symbols written in the blood or other specifically very nasty happenings during or after the murders. He actually did it all really quickly. I believe the kids only had a single shot to the head each, the parents two shots and everyone in bed...no drawn-out suffering, no anything but "I'm mentally insane, and I want all these people to be dead."

In addition, apparently Ron DeFeo, Jr. had an extremely bad relationship with his father and even asked police directly following the shootings how he could collect his father's life insurance. So there's also a strong possibility that although, IMO, a person has to be insane to shoot his family under any circumstances, there may have been an extremely mundane and everyday motive: money, and revenge.

The dude just shot them and that was that. It's horrible, it's crazy, but I'm just not getting "demonic." Rather I'm getting, "I hate my father, I'm going to get my revenge on him AND I'm going to get money, but I'm going to plead insanity so that I can get away with it all, so I'll shoot everyone instead of just one person. Because now THAT'S crazy. They'll let me off easy, I'll have to have some court-appointed psychiatric treatment, then I'll come out of it all set for life."

Naturally these are all suppositions on my part, but the fact that DeFeo Jr. was already a thief (he stole an engine just before the murders), apparently hated his father, and immediately asked how to collect the insurance money, well...you do the math.

As for the Lutzes, it's my opinion - and remember, it IS only an opinion; I wasn't there - the Lutzes bit off more than they could chew financially (they even state in the movie and I believe also the book, can't quite remember, that they were afraid they couldn't afford the place but fell in love with it), and had to find a way to wiggle out of the deal without a foreclosure on their record, so they concocted the whole thing. Who knows, it might be even a deeper scam than that, where they deliberately bought the place because they knew it was notorious, felt they could stay in there for a while, make a big show of "running away" from it, write a book and make enough money to get themselves out of whatever financial hole they were in. The former would be just plain stupidity, the latter, probably actually worse than just stupidity because it would be premeditated and planned.

IMO, the only thing that's haunting Long Island is its taxes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I agree with you, Tallysmom. It goes along with the law of attraction. Like attracts like.

On Long Island, old timers, people who can trace their roots to the 17th century, believe that this is bad ground. All of the hocus pocus confabulated by Lutz, Anson and the Warrens, is believed by almost no one.

The fact is in modern times, two wildly dysfunctional, violent and troubled families had bad experiences with this house. What I heard from what I regard as a credible source, is that the Lutz' were supposed to live there for one year. They did experience paranormal activity and personality changes while living there, and thus, were unable to fulfill that deal. They foreclosed on the house.

Because of the value of properties in that area, the Ling Island Board of Realtors (LIBOR) and the Long Island newspaper, Newsday, did much to discredit any thought that the ground was "bad: as old timers called it.
The notion of "bad ground" is prevalent in New England, where early Long Island settlers were from. It's a l belief that is accepted by may people who are open to spiritual things in many regions.

Incidentally, my father and my uncle were proprietors of an insurance firm on Long Island in the late 1950 through late 1990s. They occasionally insured bank owned homes, and the insured the Amityville property twice. They were offered the "opportunity" to purchase the house for a dirt cheap price.
My uncle, sort of as a joke; proposed that they buy the home. My aunt responded "Not on your life".

My dad and uncle did visit the property - they didn't have to visit it themselves, but they thought it would be interesting to take the 15 minute drive to Amityville, have lunch, and see "The house".
They kind of did it "on a lark".
For what it's worth, my father felt sick after wards, and had a migraine headache. It told me about the visit because he knew that I was interested in "scary things".

He said "honey, I don't know what the real truth is. But, that house has to be one of the gloomiest places I've ever visited. It's just...not normal".

Last edited by JerZ; 10-20-2014 at 12:09 AM..
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Old 10-25-2014, 02:54 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
21,558 posts, read 27,441,962 times
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It sounds as though you do not believe in the paranormal. In general.

I do not believe that this is an urban legend. I do know that several centuries of Long Islanders, believe that this plat of land in Amityville is bad. Bad ground. There are historical records to support this.

The DeFeo murders did not need to be demonically influenced. Maybe they were. Maybe they were not.

The interesting thing is that the DeFeos, a violent and wildly dysfunctional family involved in organized crime, was attracted to that particular house.

They were not the first dysfunctional family to be attracted to this house. They were not the last.
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Old 10-25-2014, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Dayton, Ohio
189 posts, read 247,539 times
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Steve Kaplan did a pretty good job of debunking that whole mess.
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Old 10-26-2014, 01:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonyT View Post
Steve Kaplan did a pretty good job of debunking that whole mess.
I agree. There's a few things about this case that stand out. But for the record:

1. In Kaplan's book, the interview with Ronald Defeo Jr.'s attorney William Weber (conducted by Joel Martin on his radio program) essentially explains how most of the phenomena portrayed in the book and film was concocted. Weber's explanation makes logical sense as to how all this came to be.

2. Weber's explanation supports Jay Anson's contention that he only wrote what the Lutz's told him (although I have no doubt that Anson had to flesh out some parts of it himself, conflicts over weather and dates can likely be attributed to Anson in my opinion, and probably other minor factual inaccuracies, but the bulk of it came from the Lutz's).

3. Nobody else before or after the Lutz's lived there claimed the house was haunted. Actress Christine Belford lived there in high school and her family sold it to the Lutz's when her parents got divorced and she's never come forward to say it was haunted.

4. People who knew the Defeo's don't think the house was haunted. Defeo Jr. Himself, despite concocting fantastic lies to try and get out of prison, has never even claimed it was haunted.

5. There is no historical evidence to support the notion that the land on which the house stands was used as either a sort of sanitarium for the Indians or as a burial ground. The lot itself is very narrow. Surely if it had been a sort of insane asylum for Indians (did they really have that many insane people to warrant a special place for them? anthropological evidence suggests not) it would have been larger than just that narrow strip of land that just so happens to coincide with the modern lot the house is on. In other words, if that were the cause of some kind of haunting, it seems likely that the houses on either side at least would also be haunted, but they're not and nobody has ever claimed they were. The whole notion that it was a place that something to do with insane or dead Indians seems oddly specific to that narrow little lot.

6. Ed and Lorraine Warren seem like charlatans in my opinion. In the "Haunting in Connecticut" case they also "worked" on, they were accused of outright fabricating events (or more accurately, asking the guy who wrote the book about it to just make stuff up and make it scary) and they've been accused of the same in the Smurl case in the 1980s (which features much of the same phenomena found in the Amityville Horror). I'm highly skeptical of anything they're involved in and the way they went after Kaplan personally over his credentials (keep in mind, the late Ed Warren called himself a demonologist, which I don't think was even a valid occupation or academic discipline during the Middle Ages much less today) was rather childish and tawdry.
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Old 10-26-2014, 03:27 AM
 
Location: Earth
412 posts, read 359,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Votre_Chef View Post
I agree. There's a few things about this case that stand out. But for the record:

1. In Kaplan's book, the interview with Ronald Defeo Jr.'s attorney William Weber (conducted by Joel Martin on his radio program) essentially explains how most of the phenomena portrayed in the book and film was concocted. Weber's explanation makes logical sense as to how all this came to be.

2. Weber's explanation supports Jay Anson's contention that he only wrote what the Lutz's told him (although I have no doubt that Anson had to flesh out some parts of it himself, conflicts over weather and dates can likely be attributed to Anson in my opinion, and probably other minor factual inaccuracies, but the bulk of it came from the Lutz's).

3. Nobody else before or after the Lutz's lived there claimed the house was haunted. Actress Christine Belford lived there in high school and her family sold it to the Lutz's when her parents got divorced and she's never come forward to say it was haunted.

4. People who knew the Defeo's don't think the house was haunted. Defeo Jr. Himself, despite concocting fantastic lies to try and get out of prison, has never even claimed it was haunted.

5. There is no historical evidence to support the notion that the land on which the house stands was used as either a sort of sanitarium for the Indians or as a burial ground. The lot itself is very narrow. Surely if it had been a sort of insane asylum for Indians (did they really have that many insane people to warrant a special place for them? anthropological evidence suggests not) it would have been larger than just that narrow strip of land that just so happens to coincide with the modern lot the house is on. In other words, if that were the cause of some kind of haunting, it seems likely that the houses on either side at least would also be haunted, but they're not and nobody has ever claimed they were. The whole notion that it was a place that something to do with insane or dead Indians seems oddly specific to that narrow little lot.

6. Ed and Lorraine Warren seem like charlatans in my opinion. In the "Haunting in Connecticut" case they also "worked" on, they were accused of outright fabricating events (or more accurately, asking the guy who wrote the book about it to just make stuff up and make it scary) and they've been accused of the same in the Smurl case in the 1980s (which features much of the same phenomena found in the Amityville Horror). I'm highly skeptical of anything they're involved in and the way they went after Kaplan personally over his credentials (keep in mind, the late Ed Warren called himself a demonologist, which I don't think was even a valid occupation or academic discipline during the Middle Ages much less today) was rather childish and tawdry.
I agree with your points BUT I have never been of the belief that native Americans used the land as a cemetary but that they buried individuals face down near water. So that is not to say that there are many people buried there.

I know we live in a time where logic and intellect apparently rule but on a more spiritual level, there is something to be said for the fact that one small piece of land can contain so much drama, myth and legend. Some may call such a place a "portal" but I do believe that in one way or the other, that it's a very special plot of land where who knows what may have taken place there.

I enjoy the legend and really have no interest in debunking it because I like the idea that it links us to another possible realm.
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