Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-13-2012, 10:48 AM
 
2,949 posts, read 5,485,570 times
Reputation: 1635

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janie.Cake View Post
Don't you think the brain deserves a bit more credit? You kinda make it sound like...a lump of wrinkly gray matter. Maybe if we think emotionally things can get twisty. Ok so if you think dreams are meaningless, what about intuition?
They did a sleep and dream study on humans and well as other animals. They found that when people and the other animals were deprived of REM sleep, they suffered memory loss as well as their ability to concentrate. The point being, it is a fact that the physical brain is 100% active during dreaming and loss of dreaming affects the physical well being of the person. If it was just a spiritual happening then it wouldn`t have such dire consequences on the physical body. What does the spirit prancing around in other worlds have to do with the physical well being of your brain and your ability to sustain physical life? Your spirit is not physical. It just animates the body. Dreams have been proven to be a physical functioning of a physical organ of the body that will result in death if it is removed.. That doesn`t mean that God, spirits, or angels cannot use dreams to communicate with you. Just likethey can communicate to you through other people, places, or events. A person can have a spiritual awakening or a feeling of revelation that changes their life by sitting out in the country alone at night staring up at the stars. They can get the same feeling sitting alone on a beach, etc. But that doesn`t mean the stars, the country, and the ocean are spiritual. They are material things that one may find spiritual meanings in.

As far as intuition, I believe a person uses their experience and knowledge to form opinions or act on certain things in certain situations. But like dreams, that doesn`t mean that you can`t get a revelation about something or can`t be given information from an angel or spirit about something or someone. It could also be your spirit guiding you. But for everyone that says, I had a gut feeling that something was wrong, or I had a gut feeling that some particular thing happened and then got confirmation about it, there are probably a hundred times where you got a gut feeling or intuition about something and it turned out to be wrong. We just never remember those times. It`s like the famous psychic Jean Dixon back in the 60`s. She was famous for predicting the death of JFK. We forget all of the hundreds of things she predicted that never happened. But that one prediction is what changed her life. Psychic or just randomly predicting major events that may or may not happen? Forgetting the majority and selectively remembering a very small few and labelling that person gifted. Just like intuition, forgetting all the times our so called intuition was wrong but remembering when it was right and therefore believing any intuition is spiritual. Same with dreams. Eventhough I believe angels or spirits can communicate with us through dreams, that is rare. But because it might happen, some people then think all dreams or most dreams are spiritual happenings.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-13-2012, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
1,918 posts, read 6,773,053 times
Reputation: 2708
Interesting topic here! I'm another Californian on the board -- I have been out of commission for quite awhile so I haven't posted much (used to be on the retirement boards -- but now I've actually retired! so my main interest is this field).

Quote:
spm62: Just like intuition, forgetting all the times our so called intuition was wrong but remembering when it was right and therefore believing any intuition is spiritual. Same with dreams. Eventhough I believe angels or spirits can communicate with us through dreams, that is rare. But because it might happen, some people then think all dreams or most dreams are spiritual happenings.
I agree that many "hunches" are not valid ones. Often they are the "gut" reaction to an incident or person or upcoming event that can increase anxiety or just make one think it is the intuition. Although sometimes they are very visceral and DO mean something! However.....I also do agree that spirits -- although not frequently -- can make their way into our dreams. Sometimes it is the easiest way to break through. I, personally, have "seen" people in both dreams and in various other ways. Communication dreams, to me, are very different from regular dreams. For me, they are in psychedelic colors, extremely vivid, and the person is actually talking to me and giving me the "message." It doesn't happen much with me in dreams, but I do "see" them on a regular basis - no, I am not schizophrenic. lol

I, too, have read Ian Stevenson (great resource), and I have had numerous past life experiences/memories. One of them was a shared experience that actually led me to a job at the A.R.E. (Association for Research and Enlightenment - Edgar Cayce) medical clinic in Phoenix. Long story, and if you want me to share later, I can. Suffice to say, I ended up in a "group Karma" situation -- that's the only time it was truly evident as we all (again long story) related our own personal, separate memories of the same time period, exact same place, exact same event. It was pretty stunning to me because my "memory" had occurred as a holographic "movie" outside of me (in color) projected on a wall in front of me while listening to the Pachelbel Canon for the first time -- and I was in Western New York at the time, alone, not knowing what was happening to me....(I've had many experiences). I started to think I was going crazy because I did not know anyone else who had these experiences, and this stuff wasn't popular like it is now -- so I didn't have resources to draw on then. When I arrived at the A.R.E. Clinic, I was shocked to discover through this group the details -- very same setting, time, clothing, people, etc. -- and we all shared that! It was one of the most remarkable experiences of my life, and it made me truly believe in reincarnation. We had gathered from all over the country to this one little place in Phoenix -- together again!

I have lots of experiences in this field, and although I have had this "thing" forever, I still am skeptical. There is not yet a scientific way to measure these experiences -- although down-the-road I do think they will come up with a measuring tool, but it could be centuries. For myself, the only gauge I have for why it seems to happen to me so often is that (ironically) at the A.R.E. Clinic they also did EEGs on people because they worked with epilepsy and other things that EEGs are necessary for. They routinely tested everyone at the clinic who worked there. Me, being a bit hyper, I had never had an EEG and at the time did not know about the levels of Beta, Alpha, Theta and Delta. I was talking away like a magpie and the clinicians were hooking me up and whispering to each other "Look at that. That is weird...it is so strange." I heard them and asked, "What? What is strange?" And then they finally said, "Well, we haven't even started the test yet and you're putting out so much Alpha." I didn't know then what Alpha was, so I had to ask what it meant. And they told me that it was the meditative state that yogis, gurus, etc. tried to get into but it often took years to sustain that level of Alpha (if at all). I still had no clue what it meant, but now that I am much older, I realize the impact. I guess that is why I have a lot of "waking" experiences, and sometimes fall into a deep trance state. It's all very interesting.

Anyway, glad to meet you all, and it's nice to talk with others about a topic dear to my heart.

I have lots of stuff to talk about, so just stop me if I get going too much!! I DO type 105wpm, so I can get a lot in fast! lol

Thanks!
Wisteria
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2012, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
8,457 posts, read 10,873,667 times
Reputation: 10700
Going back too my original post, I felt I should have added a bit more to it, and after reading the post from all who posted, it seems many are of the opinion the human brain is the main reason we dream at all.
I for one discount that notion.
The spirit, in our waking, as well as sleeping state, is responsible for all that takes place, and that includes dreams.
When the spirit embarks on it's journey to other places as we dream, it never is completely severed from our body, and that we are still connected to the spirit to the point the thoughts, and actions of the wandering spirit are being retained through that inseparable attachment we have with the spirit.
As human, we sleep because our bodies need a period of physical rest, but the spirit within us is never at rest,
There is no need for the spirit to rest, as it is not matter, it is not flesh.
When we sleep, the spirit is all there is,there is no subconscious brain activity,despite what sleep scientist would have you believe.
When you dream, you are the eyes of the spirit , seeing what it sees as it journeys out to explore.
When we sleep, for all intents and purpose, we are as though dead.
Our heart beats slower, our consciousness is replaced by the connection we have to our spirit.
It is the spirits thoughts and actions that we see when we are sleeping, and these we call dreams.
It has been said, science has come a long way in the study of sleeping, and dreams, when in reality all they have to date are facts that have been normal activity in the spirit world since their creation.
Science knows not why we dream, how we dream, why we dream what it is we dream.
This is strictly a spirit phenomenon, and has been since creation.
If dreams were a action within the human brain, then upon waking, we would have the ability to remember every facet of the dreams we are having, but, because they are spirit created, we are not in a position to remember, unless the spirit within wants to recall it's thoughts, and actions upon waking.
Bob.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2012, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
1,918 posts, read 6,773,053 times
Reputation: 2708
Hi Bob,

I honestly don't know the answers to these things. I guess that's why there are a lot of different responses. Mind and spirit are funny things.

I wish there was some "real" answer to all of this. All we can do is to go on faith, our own belief systems, and accept that all of us may not believe the same.

I don't know what's really what, and probably never will before I die. There are lots of books out there, lots of people with different experiences, and science cannot verify it all. I know, I've been in a study. It's still "guesswork."

In the meantime, whether dreams are only from spirit, or only from the body, or a combination of both, we do dream. Therefore, it may be easier to talk about what our dreams mean to ourselves, than our own belief systems of where they come from. With this kind of topic we can just go round and round and round.

I can only speak from my own point of view...so that's what I use. I have read things others have written in books -- some resonate, many don't.

I understand what you're saying about our own spirits traveling forth while we dream, still connected by the "cord" or whatever people want to call it. Maybe the spirit controls the body. I just tend to lean more toward the belief system that the spirit inhabits a physical body, which then disintegrates, and then we move on to something else as spirit, and again, maybe, eventually come back into a physical body which does the whole sequence all over again. There is no doubting that we have a physical body nor that there is a brain that is highly understudied.

I actually have a sleep disorder, and I know my brain plays a part in that. I should hope my spirit would've not let me get this disorder....

I'm just not sure why we can't agree to disagree. I'm sure there are people like yourself who totally believe it is only spirit. Then there are some like me who believe it's a little of both. Then there are those who believe it's only a physical function. The fact is, we still dream, and they mean something to us....I think the recognition of what the dream means is more important than from where it stems. Obviously, it's a part of living -- so whether it be spirit, brain or both, it seems that maybe focusing on the dreams, themselves, might be easier than trying to convince each other that our own belief system is the best. And I say this with all due respect.

I guess it's all like a Rubik's Cube -- it's tough to figure out, and sometimes it doesn't get figured out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2012, 10:41 PM
 
3 posts, read 3,265 times
Reputation: 11
I dream every night, and remember all my dreams about 89 percent of the time. I love it!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2012, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
8,457 posts, read 10,873,667 times
Reputation: 10700
Like you, I have read many books and research articles on the subject, and one important thing I have learned, not from just one, but many, is, as humans, by design, we are not meant, nor do we possess the capability to know many things concerning the spirit world.
Perhaps dreaming is one of the many we are never to fully understand.
Bob.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2012, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
1,918 posts, read 6,773,053 times
Reputation: 2708
Hi Bushwacked,

I keep a dream diary -- I'm not as consistent with it as I used to be before I had my daughter, however, I did keep one for 15 years straight!

I still write them down -- I just wrote down one this morning that I had -- and the interpretation I gave it because it was very meaningful to me. In fact, it was a continuation of a dream I had about a month ago. This time, I went farther and actually got an "ending."

My daughter has precognitive dreams, which, personally, I wouldn't want. But they don't seem to bother her.

I find that keeping a dream diary next to your bed with pencil or pen is very handy. I find that if I lay there and not get up and then go over the dream detail-by-detail in my mind that when I start writing it down that I don't forget it. I think it's fascinating.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2012, 04:10 PM
 
2,949 posts, read 5,485,570 times
Reputation: 1635
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
As human, we sleep because our bodies need a period of physical rest, but the spirit within us is never at rest,
Our bodies can rest without sleeping. Sleeping and dreaming are something more. As has been proven, the body will die if it is deprived of sleeping and the brain is unable to dream. So therefore , in my opinion, dreaming is related to the physical.
Quote:
There is no need for the spirit to rest, as it is not matter, it is not flesh.
This has been my point all along. The spirit is seperate from the body. So why does lack of dreaming have dire consequences to the physical body if dreaming is purely spiritual?
Quote:
When we sleep, the spirit is all there is,there is no subconscious brain activity,despite what sleep scientist would have you believe.
This is purely speculative. As of yet, you have given no proof that it is true. Granted, you said you read it in a book. But reading something in a book doesn`t prove it`s true. Alice in Wonderland is a book, but it isn`t proof of anything.
Quote:
When you dream, you are the eyes of the spirit , seeing what it sees as it journeys out to explore.
No, you have already stated that dreaming is all spiritual. So they cannot be related. Spiritual things cannot be physcial things. The spirit uses the physical senses and the physical body to operate in the physical realm. The spirit does not need a physical brain to operate within the spiritual realm.

Quote:
When we sleep, for all intents and purpose, we are as though dead.
Again not true. When you are dead, you have no heartbeat and no brain activity. While sleeping, you have both. All organs of the body are functioning while you sleep. Your brain is still sending signals to the organs of the body.


Quote:
our consciousness is replaced by the connection we have to our spirit.
It is the spirits thoughts and actions that we see when we are sleeping, and these we call dreams.
This is strictly a spirit phenomenon, and has been since creation.
Wrong again. Our conscious mind becomes relaxed because our brain needs to replenish and restore itself. We close our eyes and visual stimulation becomes non existent. Our brain, starts to shut off from it`s physical surroundings. As this happens our subsconscious mind, where a lot of data is stored, takes precedent. Again, it is a natural physical occurence, just like the digestive system has natural steps to keep it functioning properly, so does the brain. As stated before, when humans are deprived of dream sleep, they cannot physically function properly. When the brain is deprived of dream sleep, it cannot functioning. That should show you that it is physical. If dreaming had nothing at all to do with anything physical ( which you claim) and nothing to do with the brain in a physical capacity, then dreaming would have no ill effects on the brain itself.


Quote:
If dreams were a action within the human brain, then upon waking, we would have the ability to remember every facet of the dreams we are having, but, because they are spirit created, we are not in a position to remember, unless the spirit within wants to recall it's thoughts, and actions upon waking.
Again, not true. Memory and how the brain stores and files information affects our memory. You cannot remember what you were doing last month at this day and time. But you were physically alive doing something. Why can`t you remember what you were wearing or what you ate for dinner on Feb. 7 2011? You were obviously wearing something and you obviously ate. People with alzheimers can`t remember the names or faces of family members. The brain and memory is entirely physical. You should read up on how the brain works and how it stores information. When people are awakened in the middle of REM Sleep ,they can recall their dream. Other dreams probably are not remembered and if they are, they usually fade quickly. Just like you can`t remember what you did every day last week. It has faded from your memory.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2012, 08:40 PM
 
1,034 posts, read 1,792,890 times
Reputation: 2618
I think Bob's dream, simply put, means that Bob has always wanted to fit in, but couldn't. All the signs are there, the covered wagon fits right in with his age group.

I wish I didn't dream as much as I do or as vividly as I do. I have those - seeing every single pebble in the bottom of the stream, every shading of color, every speck in the speckled stones, crystal ripples in the stream dreams. Anyone who's had those kind of dreams knows exactly what I'm talking about.
Too much dreaming can cause physical pain, at least for me, anyway.

Things that you see or hear during the day, random thoughts you have during the day, are all likely to appear in your dreams. Sometimes I'll have a wacko lulu of a dream which will make even me wonder - where the heck did that come from? After some thought I begin to remember something I watched on TV the day before, or something I heard in passing somewhere, and the pieces start to come together.
There are other things, things in our subconscious mind that can play havoc with our dreams and our bodies.
They're the things we don't really spend time THINKING about, but a part of our mind still does, quietly, in a corner somewhere. Those thoughts can come to the forefront, at night, when we are still and our brains quiet down.

Unfortunately, my brain seems to rarely quiet down. During the day I can keep it occupied, at night it just runs amuck.

Those of you who fervently believe that you are visited by spirits in your sleep, well, the rest of us will never get you to change your minds. The human brain is actually wired to think that way. It's wired to believe certain things, whether they're true or not.

Did I see a tree spirit in the Wissahickon woods in some strange time portal or something when I was 14? Maybe I did, maybe I didn't. I thought I did at the time, even though it didn't make sense. I've always had a very vivid fertile imagination, and I wouldn't have been surprised if I'd have been told I was going to see a tree spirit in the woods that day and then seen it.
Do you see where I'm going with this? Probably not, but that's ok.

What did it look like? It looked like a Lenni Lenape description of one, which I found years later in a book.

I think I'll go watch a little TV now. I won't be surprised if there's something about a painting or some guy dropping dead.
Speaking of dropping dead - I've died in my dreams lots of times - no biggie - I just move on to become a different character and the dream continues.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2012, 04:39 AM
 
Location: Durm
7,104 posts, read 11,554,106 times
Reputation: 8049
Well, I really think dreams can serve different purposes. I've definitely had dreams of deceased people that seem like visitations, but also dreams where my brain seems to be working out something on a deep level (like the one I mentioned about the ex-boyfriend, or when I dream of tidal waves during periods of stress). For the past week or so I've been having dreams that are very typical for me, where there are a lot of people around and I'm working on some epic quest challenge - I think this is because I work from home and it's isolated - but my great-aunt has been in the dreams for the past week. I don't really remember them well but I like dreaming about my great aunt who died about 10 years ago. It doesn't feel like a visitation dream though, those seem to be etched into my memory.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top