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Old 10-21-2014, 03:56 AM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
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Please post studies to support your claims as to the composition of our conscious energy and where it goes once we die?

Until science proves this we are all entitled to think what we want to think when it comes to what happens once we die. After all that is the question of this thread.

 
Old 10-21-2014, 05:46 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 6,354,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
I am only going to address this since the rest of your post is once again nonsensical ramblings.
Your usual dodge then? Anything you can not answer you simply run away from with this "nonsensical ramblings" mantra. "nonsensical ramblings" however just tells us one thing only. YOU were unable to understand it and rather run away rather than admit that, or ask for clarification on the points you do not get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
You tell me what energy?
No you tell ME what energy you are referring to. It was YOUR claim after all that some kind of consciousness energy "goes" somewhere after we die.

What energy are you referring to?

We eat, and our metabolic processes distribute the energy from that food around our body and brain. That is the only energy we currently know about at this time. And we know exactly where it "goes" when we die.

So what energy are YOU talking about? Have you some evidence there is energy other than what is realized by the metabolic break down of food, that is related to human consciousness?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
We know that we have conscious energy right? But do we know the composition or structure of this energy? Do you get it now?
We have no evidence at this time that there is any energy in our body or brain that was not released by the metabolic processing of our food. THAT is the only energy we have reason to think exists inside us and we know where THAT energy goes when we die. Do you get it now?

Now while it is currently a mystery to us HOW that energy is used in the processes that produce human consciousness, this is not a license to simply imagine the existence of another kind of energy like you are. Do you get it now?

Saying that we do not know how the energy is used is NOT the same as saying we do not know where it comes from or where it "goes". Do you get it now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
So how do you expect me to tell you exactly what energy I am talking about?
You tell me. I am not the one claiming some other energy, other than the one I referred to, exists. If you have evidence some other energy is at play here, then by all means tell us about it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
I know conscious energy exits
What is "conscious" energy? How do you "know" it exists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
Please post studies to support your claims as to the composition of our conscious energy and where it goes once we die?
Why would I post studies to support a claim I never made? IT is you rambling on about "conscious energy" not me. All I said is that we know where the energy in our body and brain comes from (our food), we know how it gets there (we eat) and we know how it is moved around our body and brain (metabolic network) and we know where it goes when we die (heat dissipation and decomposition).

If YOU want to claim some other energy other than these exist, then YOU post your studies, not me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
Until science proves this we are all entitled to think what we want to think when it comes to what happens once we die. After all that is the question of this thread.
I never once suggested you are not "entitled" to such musings. By all means, go for it. People musing nonsense usually leads to nonsense, but sometimes it leads to genuine and useful discoveries and knowledge! So go for it!

What I did acknowledge however is the simple fact that where your thinking is leading you is to ENTIRELY unsubstantiated conclusions that are not supported by, well, anything at all.
 
Old 10-21-2014, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,423,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
Your usual dodge then?
What have I dodged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
No you tell ME what energy you are referring to. It was YOUR claim after all that some kind of consciousness energy "goes" somewhere after we die.
I've answered this question several times and you even mention it in your question so why are asking me again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
We eat, and our metabolic processes distribute the energy from that food around our body and brain. That is the only energy we currently know about at this time.
Now we are getting somewhere. It is the only form of energy that some scientists speculate about at this time. However this does not lead to the conclusion that this is the only energy that exists in our mind.

As I mentioned earlier, most scientists have adopted a traditionally monist view of the mind-brain problem, arguing that the human mind, consciousness, and self are no more than by-products of electrochemical activity within the brain, notwithstanding the lack of any scientific evidence or even a plausible biological explanation as to how the brain would lead to the development of mind and consciousness.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
So what energy are YOU talking about? Have you some evidence there is energy other than what is realized by the metabolic break down of food, that is related to human consciousness?
Yes I do!
  • The unseen energy in Quantum Mechanics,
  • Studies in recent years from a number of scientific studies conducted by independent researchers who have found that as many as 10-20 percent of individuals who undergo cardiac arrest report lucid, well-structured thought processes, reasoning, memories, and sometimes detailed recall of their cardiac arrest. What makes these experiences remarkable is that while studies of the brain during cardiac arrest have consistently that there is no brain activity during this period, these individuals have reported detailed perceptions that appear to indicate the presence of a high-level of consciousness in the absence of measurable brain activity.
  • The above led the late Nobel-winning neuroscientist Sir John Eccles, to propose a dualist view of the problem, arguing that the human mind and consciousness may in fact constitute a separate, undiscovered entity apart from the brain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
We have no evidence at this time that there is any energy in our body or brain that was not released by the metabolic processing of our food. THAT is the only energy we have reason to think exists inside us and we know where THAT energy goes when we die. Do you get it now?
You are the one who does not Get it? The position you take in wanting to deny and argue that conscious energy does not exist because there is no evidence is your fallacy. It does exist...we have not detected it and I am 100% confident that we won't even come close to being able to detect it at the rate we are going and with the narrow minded scientists that you are ascribing your ideas from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
Now while it is currently a mystery to us HOW that energy is used in the processes that produce human consciousness, this is not a license to simply imagine the existence of another kind of energy like you are. Do you get it now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
Saying that we do not know how the energy is used is NOT the same as saying we do not know where it comes from or where it "goes". Do you get it now?
Apparently Sir John Eccles and all those scientist working on the Human Consciousness Project get it and so do I.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
You tell me. I am not the one claiming some other energy, other than the one I referred to, exists. If you have evidence some other energy is at play here, then by all means tell us about it!
  • Lucid Dreaming
  • Out of Body Experiences
  • Well developed intuition
  • NDE's
  • Image recall
  • Mental Energy
  • Memoires
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
What is "conscious" energy? How do you "know" it exists?
Now that is the trillion dollar question isn't it? I think Sir John Eccles was onto to something...Energy consciousness exists in a duality similar to the wave-particle dualitywe see in physics. This energy consciousness can be experienced as energy, as consciousness, or as energy consciousness depending on the environment and how consciousness chooses to observe in that environment and on what it chooses focuses its attention awareness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
All I said is that we know where the energy in our body and brain comes from (our food), we know how it gets there (we eat) and we know how it is moved around our body and brain (metabolic network) and we know where it goes when we die (heat dissipation and decomposition).
Once again this is your limitation. This statement is not accurate in the least. We do not know the energy that's involved in any of the processes listed above. We don't even understand the energy involved in making a conscious decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
If YOU want to claim some other energy other than these exist, then YOU post your studies, not me.
I am not the one in doubt but there are plenty of studies out there for you to look up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
I never once suggested you are not "entitled" to such musings. By all means, go for it. People musing nonsense usually leads to nonsense, but sometimes it leads to genuine and useful discoveries and knowledge! So go for it!
What are you calling musing nonsense?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
What I did acknowledge however is the simple fact that where your thinking is leading you is to ENTIRELY unsubstantiated conclusions that are not supported by, well, anything at all.
My conclusions are supported by Quantum Physics, Nobel-Prize winner John Eccles, Dr. Sam Parnia and all the scientists working on the relationship between mind and brain.

I place much more stock in Quantum Physics and the list of people above than I do with someone who just wants to argue mute points on a CD forum.

Last edited by TVC15; 10-21-2014 at 12:32 PM..
 
Old 10-21-2014, 12:24 PM
 
2,183 posts, read 2,631,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =^..^= View Post
I wish someone would produce PROOF of such things as life after death. All we have are anecdotes and people's personal stories. These are really not proofs. If seeing a light and loved ones at the end of a tunnel was real, everyone including atheists would have the same experience. Those who see these things are almost always devout christians and their brains are not DEAD. Once the brain dies, there is no coming back to talk about what was experienced. I learned this when taking EMT training in the 1970s.

People from all the ages have had trouble accepting the inevitability and finality of their own deaths.
patently false. Atheists and religious people alike all have similar experiences.

Yeah because out medical knowledge in the 70's was top notch compared to today. lol.
 
Old 10-21-2014, 12:31 PM
 
2,183 posts, read 2,631,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Data1000 View Post
The light fades and it's game over... just like the feeling we all had before we were born.
Dude I don't remember any of the first few years of my life, does that mean it didn't happen? As far as I know I didn't exist then.
 
Old 10-21-2014, 12:42 PM
 
2,183 posts, read 2,631,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =^..^= View Post
There you go! An afterlife is of no benefit to us and the other animals on earth. And we ARE animals, mammals after all. It has no survival, reproductive or evolutionary value. An afterlife is a religious concept with an agenda.
You can't use earthly processes to explain the spiritual. People who are staunch atheists who believe they will disappear still have NDE's, scientific observation has told us this.

They aren't strictly religious experiences, in fact religious people who have them tend to distance themselves from organized religion afterwards because it doesn't fit their experience, too "us vs them", not all-loving, all-accepting like the energy/beings they felt while dead.

You need to do a lot of research if you are making these kinds of basic errors on the subject.
 
Old 10-21-2014, 12:49 PM
 
30,907 posts, read 32,923,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
You can't use earthly processes to explain the spiritual.
Why not? This has always puzzled me. Particularly if, in this case as a very good example, actually, the spiritual is supposed to be directly affected by and initiated by an earthly process: dying.

If it "just is," whether from spiritual or earthly origin, then it "just is" and should be observable and quantifiable...right?

Science doesn't have to have created something in order to observe it. If it's a law, even a spiritual and universal law, it should be able (at some point) to be observed and quantified, because again...if it just is, then it is. Science can't create that, it can't change that (if it's a universal law), but there's no (pardon the pun) earthly reason it shouldn't be able to verify that it exists, if it really does.

If a yogi psychically raises his own body temperature, that is measurable by science, and it doesn't matter that the temperature change has a spiritual origin. Science can still observe and measure it. Correct? You can just take the yogi's temperature.

The thing is, I'm not sure anyone is looking for science to actual "explain" it, as you state...just verify it. I don't need electricity explained to me in order to verify that every time I flip a light switch up, a light goes on. (In fact, my son asked me to explain to him how electricity works and I hem-haw-ummmed him some uneducated drivel about lightening being electricity and somehow we "harness" it, no actual clue how, BTW, and that it then "travels" - how again? No clue...through the wires...he gave me an "Oh, I get it, you have no clue" look and went to finish his game of Minecraft.)

Nor do I have to have some certain specific faith in electricity in order to work and, looking at it from the other side, if I had a lack of faith that a light would come on when the switch was flipped, the light would come on regardless. If something truly is, then it is, period...and I still can't see the reason why that wouldn't hold true for the spiritual/esoteric just as it does for the physical/practical, why wouldn't it, if these beliefs are actual truth and reality?

Having said all that, I am 100% certain that I sound like an utter irredeemable moron to the religious and non-religous alike.

Last edited by JerZ; 10-21-2014 at 12:58 PM..
 
Old 10-21-2014, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,423,156 times
Reputation: 8955
Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
You can't use earthly processes to explain the spiritual. People who are staunch atheists who believe they will disappear still have NDE's, scientific observation has told us this.

They aren't strictly religious experiences, in fact religious people who have them tend to distance themselves from organized religion afterwards because it doesn't fit their experience, too "us vs them", not all-loving, all-accepting like the energy/beings they felt while dead.

You need to do a lot of research if you are making these kinds of basic errors on the subject.
There were also a team of PhD's that experimented with DMT and one of them was ultra religious before the experiment but after her exposure to DMT she dropped those silly religious beliefs.

DMT: The Spirit Molecule - Dr Rick Strassman's DMT Research
 
Old 10-21-2014, 12:52 PM
 
2,183 posts, read 2,631,083 times
Reputation: 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by =^..^= View Post
Not believing is not a religion. It's tiresome for believers to keep claiming it is and pushing that on non-believers.


No, you believe that nothing happens when you die. And you have invested emotional energy into that belief, and you defend it. Just like religious people do with their beliefs.
 
Old 10-21-2014, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,423,156 times
Reputation: 8955
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Why not? This has always puzzled me.

If it "just is," whether from spiritual or earthly origin, then it "just is" and should be observable and quantifiable...right?

Science doesn't have to have created something in order to observe it. If it's a law, even a spiritual and universal law, it should be able (at some point) to be observed and quantified, because again...if it just is, then it is. Science can't create that, it can't change that (if it's a universal law), but there's no (pardon the pun) earthly reason it shouldn't be able to verify that it exists, if it really does.

The thing is, I'm not sure anyone is looking for science to actual "explain" it, as you state...just verify it. I don't need electricity explained to me in order to verify that every time I flip a light switch up, a light goes on. Nor do I have to have some certain specific faith in electricity in order to work and, looking at it from the other side, if I had a lack of faith that a light would come on when the switch was flipped, the light would come on regardless.
You would think so but the Universe does not work like that. Also the Universe is constantly changing. Just look at the history on Planet Earth...at one time there were Dinosaurs here before humans evolved. So if science were developed enough to have been around during the Dinosaur era how much would you bet that the atmospheric conditions were very different than what Earths today? So would that recorded scientific data from back in the era represent our atmospheric conditions that exist today? No because the dream changed and so did the creatures and atmosphere.

We barley understand the Universe and all the complexities and mysteries that it holds.

Humans get stuck on the science...science is good but it is not all knowing and it is constantly evolving. It is limited by the sensitivity of man created measuring devices and man created concepts.

Do you think our limited human perceptions can understand and measure all the complexities and dimensions in the Universe? We cannon exist or experience other realms while trapped in our fleshy bodies. People who have experienced other realms are the ones who did so using what we call their conscious energy that has yet to be discovered by science.

Last edited by TVC15; 10-21-2014 at 01:12 PM..
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