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Old 10-22-2014, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
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It is very odd how those who want to dismiss the notion of an after life make up the same old story about people creating the notion of afterlife because they cannot accept death or not seeing loved ones ever again and the NDEs are hallucinations. Respectfully I assure you that many who believe in an afterlife are not believing it for the reasons the naysayers come up with.

However I do think that some religions created the idea of an afterlife based on the old story above.

It's interesting all the different types of afterlife's people believe in.

All religions have their beliefs about the afterlife and have conditioned their followers for 1000's of years.

Free thinkers have their beliefs which are far different than what religion conditions you to believe.

Spiritually evolved people have reasons that differ from all of the above.

Naysayers please don't lump all people who believe in the soul consciousness carrying on with it's journey into the same category with respect to why we believe what we believe.
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Old 10-22-2014, 06:07 PM
 
Location: California → Tennessee → Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
What are your thoughts about what happens to us

Total and complete blackness
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Old 10-22-2014, 06:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post

Naysayers please don't lump all people who believe in the soul consciousness carrying on with it's journey into the same category with respect to why we believe what we believe.
I don't actually see this happening - just people's ideas (and yes, we ARE all different) on various possibilities. The one place on this thread I am pretty consistently seeing as "jumping on" is between you and another poster, both of whom appear to be reacting, and acting based on emotion (as well as injecting plenty of insults, sarcasm, and the like), and of course that's your choice.

And by the way, pooh-poohing every single piece of actual scientific evidence (and yes, there IS scientific evidence of the effects of, say, lack of oxygen on the brain, and psychiatric evidence of how people interpret various events and experiences, and also specifically on memory) as the person "being a naysayer" is a minimizing their input. (As long as we're talking about lumping together entire groups and ideas and simply negating them.) I am not trying to be a wise*ass, I am being 100% honest. That doesn't mean I can tell you want to do, it means simply that this is what I'm seeing.

Belief is outside the above entirely, does not depend on science, and, yes, is free to all, and that's fine. That is exactly as it should be, IMO.

However, categorizing scientific data as "belief" doesn't really make you a step up from those you are currently wagging your finger at. So just calm down, take a deep breath, and if you want input, accept it, and if you don't, you may want to stop asking for it. Simple as that. That, again, is totally up to you.
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Old 10-22-2014, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
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Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
I don't actually see this happening - just people's ideas (and yes, we ARE all different) on various possibilities.
I have heard it my entire life and you can find many naysayers using it as their justification to explain away why people have a supposed "need" to believe in an afterlife. It is complete hogwash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
And by the way, pooh-poohing every single piece of actual scientific evidence (and yes, there IS scientific evidence of the effects of, say, lack of oxygen on the brain, and psychiatric evidence of how people interpret various events and experiences, and also specifically on memory) as the person "being a naysayer" is a minimizing their input.
I hate to break it to you but many studies about memory are very subjective. There are still plenty of unknowns with respect to memory. However trying to use this subjective data to negate what NDE's people are recalling once their brain activity returns should not be used to dismiss their recollections.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
However, categorizing scientific data as "belief" doesn't really make you a step up from those you are currently wagging your finger at. So just calm down, take a deep breath, and if you want input, accept it, and if you don't, you may want to stop asking for it. Simple as that. That, again, is totally up to you.
It appears that you have clearly misunderstood something once again. I have never categorized scientific data as "belief"...they are entirely two separate things. You can certainly form a belief based on scientific data that proves or disproves a theory or you can form a belief based on life experiences, conditionings or whatever other means that people chose to believe in something. Scientific Data is not the same thing as a belief. Apples to oranges.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
I have never categorized scientific data as "belief"...they are entirely two separate things.
Actually, by relegating actual data to "naysayers" and stating that the studies I spoke of and others have spoken of (but the studies you spoke of for some reason) were "subjective," yes, basically, you were.

You're confident in your beliefs. That is fine. Others have theirs. Also fine.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Actually, by relegating actual data to "naysayers" and stating that the studies I spoke of and others have spoken of (but the studies you spoke of for some reason) were "subjective," yes, basically, you were.

You're confident in your beliefs. That is fine. Others have theirs. Also fine.
What is wrong with showing a naysayer data that flies in the face of their belief system? Or would you rather go on believing that the world is flat when there is irrefutable data to suggest otherwise?

I don't recall any reputable scientific studies posted by you or anyone else with respect to the topic of this thread.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
What is wrong with showing a naysayer data that flies in the face of their belief system? Or would you rather go on believing that the world is flat when there is irrefutable data to suggest otherwise?
Oh my goodness, now you're just not making any sense at all any more. I really suggest you step back and take a deep breath and collect yourself, and at least take a stab at being logical.

It appears you've crossed over from simply defensive and in denial, to kind of losing the plot.

Take. A. Breath.

Think.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 9,263,491 times
Reputation: 8936
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Oh my goodness, now you're just not making any sense at all any more. I really suggest you step back and take a deep breath and collect yourself, and at least take a stab at being logical.

It appears you've crossed over from simply defensive and in denial, to kind of losing the plot.

Take. A. Breath.

Think.
Let me break it down for you.

Many people believe in things that can be proven otherwise...example: there are people who to this day believe that the earth is flat despite the irrefutable data that proves otherwise. Also there are people who say that the memoires from people who have experienced a NDE are hallucinations...but we now have evidence to disprove this.

You claim that there is something wrong with showing evidence to others who are holding onto beliefs that are just not accurate. Right?

Now do you understand why I said this?
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:33 PM
 
25,736 posts, read 27,263,296 times
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Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post

You claim that there is something wrong with showing evidence to others who are holding onto beliefs that are just not accurate. Right?
No, wrong already.

I don't think you're collected enough right now to see that, and I can't make you see that, so I will leave you to your own decisions on what you do and don't read.

I hope you have a good evening, a relaxing one, and I mean that.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 9,263,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
No, wrong already.
Here you go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Actually, by relegating actual data to "naysayers" and stating that the studies I spoke of and others have spoken of (but the studies you spoke of for some reason) were "subjective," yes, basically, you were.
Once again I don't recall you or anyone else posting reputable studies about the topic of this thread. An overview about memory from netplaces.com is not a study. You can search all the cognitive neuroscience studies currently underway to learn about all the unknowns with respect to memory.
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