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Old 01-30-2013, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Near Nashville TN
7,201 posts, read 13,043,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
If you are of a particular belief, and have something to add that could back up your belief, I am sure we would like to know about it.
Bob.
I wish someone would produce PROOF of such things as life after death. All we have are anecdotes and people's personal stories. These are really not proofs. If seeing a light and loved ones at the end of a tunnel was real, everyone including atheists would have the same experience. Those who see these things are almost always devout christians and their brains are not DEAD. Once the brain dies, there is no coming back to talk about what was experienced. I learned this when taking EMT training in the 1970s.

People from all the ages have had trouble accepting the inevitability and finality of their own deaths.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:31 AM
 
19,922 posts, read 10,309,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =^..^= View Post
I wish someone would produce PROOF of such things as life after death.
Ironic, or phophetic, that I posted this earlier today in another thread ...

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." ... Stuart Chase
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Near Nashville TN
7,201 posts, read 13,043,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
I think that any Catholic, which is essentially my faith, should be ecstatic if NOTHING happened, meaning they went into a perpetual sleep. When they talk about eternal rest at funeral Masses, I'm asking myself "Ain't that the same thing as the best snooze of one's life ... or death?"
Aren't the dead (christian version) supposed to rest until the resurrection sometime in the future? The time when mankind leaves their "memorial tombs?" Why then do people with NDEs claim they've seen dead loved ones at the end of the tunnel or light? Those deceased loved ones are supposed to be at rest awaiting the resurrection. Yes, I studied the bible for several years.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
24,384 posts, read 21,278,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =^..^= View Post
I wish someone would produce PROOF of such things as life after death. All we have are anecdotes and people's personal stories. These are really not proofs. If seeing a light and loved ones at the end of a tunnel was real, everyone including atheists would have the same experience. Those who see these things are almost always devout christians and their brains are not DEAD. Once the brain dies, there is no coming back to talk about what was experienced. I learned this when taking EMT training in the 1970s.

People from all the ages have had trouble accepting the inevitability and finality of their own deaths.
My husband was NOT a devout religious person of any religion. Could be his brain wasn't dead but his heart sure was.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Near Nashville TN
7,201 posts, read 13,043,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley View Post
Ironic, or phophetic, that I posted this earlier today in another thread ...

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." ... Stuart Chase
Uh, excuse me but that makes little sense. For those who don't believe, the PROOF would make them believers.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Near Nashville TN
7,201 posts, read 13,043,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiznluv View Post
My husband was NOT a devout religious person of any religion. Could be his brain wasn't dead but his heart sure was.
The heart is not "dead" the second or minute it stops beating. That's why it can be shocked back into beating with the electric jolt. And that's why heart-transplants are possible. Have you had any medical training?

Your husband's heart and brain were not DEAD, or he would not have revived.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Near Nashville TN
7,201 posts, read 13,043,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie1946 View Post

Bottom line for me is, I go with the Bible as reliable on our future state. My free will choice.

Cheers.
Please allow me to politely enlighten you on the subject of Jesus. It was many years later, after his death, that the story of Jesus life was written. It was written by men who never knew him or anyone who did. The writers CLAIMED there were many witnesses to Jesus revival without proof or evidence for such claims. If Jesus was actually dead, after several days in the cave he would have been already decomposing. There is no revival of life at that point. If he was not dead, which is what many believe, then revival is possible as it's happened to others over our history. Others belive his close followers, the deciples, used a stand-in since it was claimed others didn't recognize him after he revived. How can anyone not recognize someone after only a few days absence? The bible is faith, belief, not science.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 17,418,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
Yes, but it is the decision made by the spirit as to weather it feels the need to re-incarnate.
Incarnation is strictly up to the spirit, and what life form that re-incarnation will take.
The purpose of judgement is to allow the spirit to make it's own decision as to when, and if it will re-incarnate.
The judgement of the spirit takes into consideration, not only the life it just left, but past lives as well.
Kind of what we might think of as a job interview, and our resume being analyzed.
Upon any judgement, spirits are free to do as they wish, when it comes to incarnation.
A spirit may decide to not incarnate for what we humans would consider a huge amount of time, perhaps hundreds of years before it feels the need to incarnate.
Until the spirit reaches that level of absolute purity, it , at some point, will feel the need to incarnate.
Now, that incarnation may not be in a human, but could be an animal, or some unknown life form we humans are not privy too.
Many times their re-incarnation may be a form of penance.
A penance served as "payment" for having not carried on a good and respectful existence in one of it's past existences.
I have studied this particular segment of re-incarnation because I found answers in it, that for a lifetime, had no answer, not only for me, but perhaps millions of others.
I would like to keep this post brief, but want to explain what this "penance" is, and what I believe is it's importance in our daily lives.
To begin, we are all aware what penance is.
A spirit that feels it was less than perfect in a recent or previous life existence, may want, after judgement, to make amends for that faulty existence,and chooses to re-incarnate to do it's penance.
At this point we lay people would have no idea how a wayward spirit would go about serving out a penance.
We on the other hand who have delved into the subject have a better understanding of how this is accomplished.
From what I know (and believe), spirits have the uncanny ability to know all there is to know about a life, be it human or otherwise, before that life is even born.
They know the trials and tribulations that life will encounter, and all that exist with it.
It is this precognition that will be the deciding factor as to what life the spirit will incarnate into.
Case in point; Let's assume a spirit returned to the world of spirits, was judged, and felt it needed to do some powerful penance for past sins.
In solitude,and deep thought, it is able to see future lives, and how that life will be.
For the sake of better understanding, let us assume the life it will choose is that of a human being.
The spirit is aware of the level of penance it feels it must do, so in this case, the penance is severe.
The spirit has made a choice, and it will incarnate into a human that will be severely afflicted for all it's life.
Perhaps at birth, this human will be blind, or crippled, or have a life long mental disability.
The spirit will incarnate,knowing full well the life it will live,and how long it will live.
Living this less than perfect existence will be it's penance.
I have often stated in other threads, my belief that all life forms are nothing but tools for the spirit, and as humans, I see how this plays out in the human existence.
Take for instance, a baby born blind, mute, or some other gross affliction.
Naturally as humans, we don't understand why this happens, and ask, how could a loving God allow this to happen?
There are those who would argue, the baby was born with birth defects because of the parent's DNA.
To that I would answer,not likely.
Those born with less than perfect working bodies are the result of a master plan .
A plan not for the good of the human species, but for the good of the spirits.
Some feel genetics play a role in what babies will inherit.
This is true to some extent, but there are exceptions, and when they happen, it is because it is supposed to happen.
If we were not tools, we would live forever in our physical bodies.
Like any tool, once it's usefulness has been depleted, it is discarded.
I use to question, and feel pity when I came across a person seriously afflicted to the point of being completely dependent on others for survival.
I know longer do that.
I feel it is a spirit doing it penance, and doing penance is a good thing.
This observation of doing penance speaks volumes when we question why so many things that happen to we humans are not understood, and leave us with only questions.
Fortunately some of us who have looked into this have a clearer understanding of just why many of these things could be happening.
Until someone can explain to me why babies are born crippled, blind, mute etc. I believe I have the better more reliable explanation.
Bob.
Bob,
I understand that the calamities that befall us in this life are of our own doing (mostly), including birth defects, but I also think that, for me at least, learning compassion from their situation, showing mercy and trying to assist is also a part of development. Medicine keeps forging ahead in attempts to aid these children born of inherited disorders, and when they can be detected in the womb many are aborted. I don't think this is a bad thing at all.

A criticism of Mother Theresa was that she would sometimes offer the sick a bed and have them waste away with no treatment. She said suffering was holy and was God's will. I say that allowing the ill to suffer when you can do something about it is evil. We are here to help. We are even to offer second chances. I personally have little compassion for a person who should have known better and has brought hard time upon himself, but I do not have perfect love. This is why Christ impresses so many of us. Perfect love. Christ supposedly keeps trying even in impossible odds.

I also think the word 'judgment' sounds harsh, something from puritan Christian times. I think of it as a life review and that sometime after our death we are met with teachers who have much experience and many insights and our eyes are opened concerning our goals and how we might best achieve them. We have guidance instead of judgment.

Yes, and when we come back we often find that we wish to right wrongs, which is a more palatable word to me than 'penance'.

For me, 'sin' is also a loaded word, bringing with it the condemnations of my early Christian upbringing. I think 'error' is a better selection. Most souls strive to be better. We all want goodness the way a flower wants the sun. We make mistakes. We err. Sin sounds so much like deliberate defiance.

To me we are not in some sort of military situation, ready to be slapped down by our superiors when we screw up. We are just imperfect beings who are trying to be better, who sometimes fail but are encouraged by those who love us and who have been down this road themselves, to do better.

Sorry. I don't mean to be critical. Mostly my personal hangups are uncomfortable with the semantics.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:24 PM
 
651 posts, read 640,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley View Post
Ironic, or phophetic, that I posted this earlier today in another thread ...

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." ... Stuart Chase
I don't see this as true. I am very skeptical of any life after death and don't think there is such a thing. But if proof came to light that is credible I would believe it. Its not that skeptics don't want to believe its that they know there is not proof of such things. Its all made up like gods and demons ghosts and goblins fairies and talking rabbits running down holes.

In all the years humans have looked for proof what has been seen or able to be proven? Its all a feeling or intuition. Faith believing in something with out evidence. If you fall for something with out evidence you can fall for anything and everything.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Chicago area
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I'm in health care and have had to perform CPR many many times. Of the select few who have survived it not one ever said they experienced anything but darkness. There was one woman I'll never forget. The resident was on the gurney pumping on her chest and I was breathing for her. She was clinically gone. The surgeons managed to save her and when she was well enough I asked her about her experience. She said there was nothing but darkness and she never saw the light. From a scientific point of view I have a hard time understanding how there could be any form of being self aware after the brain activity ceases to be. On the other side of the coin, I've had so many strange things happen to me that I can't explain. I have an open mind but thinking logically I'd have to say that death is darkness. Yes I've seen a UFO but it doesn't mean it was from outer space. Thinking logically about it you have to come to the conclusion that the distance is just too vast for us to be visited by anything but a military craft. The other side of the argument would be that the technology that would exist to travel these distances would be beyond our comprehension. I'm not arrogant enough to say that I have the answers or that I know for sure that one answer is right. I'll just leave it at I just don't know.
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