Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,444,054 times
Reputation: 8955
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar Delta
You just wasted a lot of your time with all of that attitude and expounding. I understand all of that. I understood all of that by the time I was in first grade. In fact, I probably understand it better than you do. But clearly, you completely failed to understand what I was actually getting at. Not surprising. Chango was correct in their guess as to what I was talking about. :
Not a waste of time to educate people who make absurd statements.
First you claim that we don't see in 3D.
And now you claim that you understand the science of it better than I do Ok whatever makes you feel better!
Fast-forward to about 3:10. When I was talking about a spherical retina, I meant an actual solid sphere, which is likely what a hypothetical four-dimensional being would possess as a part of its overall four-dimensional eye(s). Whole 3D objects would be projected into this spherical volume, allowing the four-dimensional being to see entire 3D objects at once. Three-dimensional beings can have depth perception, but that is just an inference. We will only ever be able to see a flat image consisting of the nearest 2D surfaces of 3D objects.
Umm help me in what way?
Thanks but no thanks. I did not earn two solid science degrees to be arguing about this.
Not true. When I hop on my motorcycle and take a journey along the Pacific Highway that is the reality of my human existence on earth. The sights I am taking in are not a perceived simulation. That ocean is real. That mountain is real. That motorcycle is real. That sun is real. Humans see and experience with the sensory organs that we evolved with that allows us to thrive on planet earth. Now if we were to take a human and place him on Mars he will die...the human evolutionary design is not compatible for Mars. Same as if you take a fish out of the ocean...it will not survive on land due to its evolutionary design to survive in the ocean. Or plop a human in the ocean and see how far that gets them. What we experience on earth is real for our human form on earth.
None of these are simulations on earth. It is what is actually happening right here right now.
I hear people say that we are really asleep and all of this is a dream. Not so. I lay down at night and dream. I think dreaming is definitely a different dimension that our soul consciousness travels to. Fully waking in the dream and being able to control it (Fully Lucid) is not the same experience or perception as our waking consciousness.
If you think this is a dream/simulated event then test it! See if you can fly. See if you can morph into anything you want. I would be willing to bet my life that you will not be able to.
That is why I don't believe that it is over when we die. Yes it is over as a human on planet earth if you're lucky!
We have a soul consciousness that leaves our body...it is no longer trapped in our fleshy body. Where it goes nobody can absolutely say but we can all decide for ourselves what happens depending on our experiences, conditioning or speculations that we acquired during our time on earth.
There is no spirit or soul as religion would have us believe. If souls exists, we'd be able to see them scientifically and our consciousness would not be so easy to tweak and/manipulate by messing with our brains.
The only possible way our conscious minds could continue to exist after the brain shuts down permanently is if this life (and our own death) isn't "real" per se but is contiguous with some other presumably higher level of existence. Remember, that's an "IF" too; it's far more likely that we really are just an evolutionary fluke... simply hairless bipedal apes with overdeveloped noggins that blink out after death seemingly like everything else.
I'm not saying either is truly the way of things because I don't know... but it's the only way I can make science and spirituality fit together without them contradicting each other.
Our inability to do anything magical does not disprove the idea either... if the game was programed to operate within certain rules... say the "Laws of Physics" we would be powerless to overcome them just like any video game. For example, I will die in Skyrim if my hit points are knocked down to 0 and am unable to take my underwear off in the game (there are no nude hacks for Xbox! ) no matter how much I try to do it, but that doesn't make Skyrim any more "real" because I still have limits in the game!
As for reality itself... you can't know 100% that the ocean or mountains, your motorcycle or even yourself objectively exists outside your mind because you can't remove your mind from the act of observation. Everything we experience is a mental model approximation created from sensory input and compared/made sensible with the brain's past experience... and it's full of holes. There are any number of "brain games" you can do to show this.
In truth, it's only real because you believe it is, have never experienced anything beyond it and therefore have no reason to doubt it.
Beyond that notion... what exactly is "reality" in the first place? If a simulation was so complete that it effetively modeled everything from the subatomic level to the entire world.. or even galaxy or universe flawlessly is it fair to call it a mere "simulation"? It would be orders of magnitude beyond anything we would call a simulation today, like the difference between cutting notches on a stick vs the full capabilities of the latest supercomputer when it comes to crunching numbers. Even "The Matrix" from the movie would be completely pathetic compared to the amazingly dynamic world we obviously live in.
Not a waste of time to educate people who make absurd statements. Y
First you claim that we don't see in 3D.
And now you claim that you understand the science of it better than I do Ok whatever makes you feel better!
Umm help me in what way?
Thanks but no thanks. I did not earn two solid science degrees to be arguing about this.
I guess you also need to go earn some linguistics degrees as well to help you out, because clearly your reading and language comprehension is light years behind your supposed scientific brilliance. But hey, if that feeds your superiority complex, more power to you.
I believe that we join the rest of the energy that makes up our world....the trillions of galaxies, and billions of universes. We meet our creator and become part of it.
But I do understand precisely how we "see" in "3D". Please believe me. Human visual perception and qualia have always been extremely interesting subjects to me. What I am getting at is that we are talking about two completely different subjects, I think, and using the language in a different way to describe them.
Heh, perhaps I need to go back and get my linguistics degree! I probably shouldn't have even brought it up anyway, it's irrelevant to what happens after death. Did you see the article about existential passage? I'd love to know what others think of the concept.
Last edited by Lunar Delta; 02-04-2013 at 08:30 PM..
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,444,054 times
Reputation: 8955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango
There is no spirit or soul as religion would have us believe. If souls exists, we'd be able to see them scientifically and our consciousness would not be so easy to tweak and/manipulate by messing with our brains.
I don't belive in religion. And how would science be able to see them? Science can't even expain dreams. Science can't measure or see someone in a dream either. Science has not even been able to see or measure our consciousness even though it exists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango
The only possible way our conscious minds could continue to exist after the brain shuts down permanently is if this life (and our own death) isn't "real" per se but is contiguous with some other presumably higher level of existence. Remember, that's an "IF" too; it's far more likely that we really are just an evolutionary fluke... simply hairless bipedal apes with overdeveloped noggins that blink out after death seemingly like everything else.
Who said anything about our conscious minds existing after death? Dear the mind is gone upon death. The conscious energy is not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango
I'm not saying either is truly the way of things because I don't know... but it's the only way I can make science and spirituality fit together without them contradicting each other.
The thing you are not keeping in perspective is that science has not been able to prove or disprove souls/spirits. Heck science does not even know what a black hole is. Or much at all about our Universe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango
Our inability to do anything magical does not disprove the idea either...
Sure it does
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango
As for reality itself... you can't know 100% that the ocean or mountains, your motorcycle or even yourself objectively exists outside your mind because you can't remove your mind from the act of observation. Everything we experience is a mental model approximation created from sensory input and compared/made sensible with the brain's past experience... and it's full of holes. There are any number of "brain games" you can do to show this.
Yes I can. Man come back to planet earth...put the little brain game toy down and wake up. Tell that to all of the other humans that I see and interact with on these bike trips. They see the same thing I see. The ocean is our home. It is where we came from and it is real in our planet earth dimension.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango
In truth, it's only real because you believe it is, have never experienced anything beyond it and therefore have no reason to doubt it.
Beyond that notion... what exactly is "reality" in the first place? If a simulation was so complete that it effetively modeled everything from the subatomic level to the entire world.. or even galaxy or universe flawlessly is it fair to call it a mere "simulation"? It would be orders of magnitude beyond anything we would call a simulation today, like the difference between cutting notches on a stick vs the full capabilities of the latest supercomputer when it comes to crunching numbers. Even "The Matrix" from the movie would be completely pathetic compared to the amazingly dynamic world we obviously live in.
A human on planet earth is the reality that we exist in. I believe in infinite dimensions in our Universe. We are just in one of those dimensions thus the reality that goes along with being an earthbound human.
But when we die our spirit or whatever you want to call is free from our body and is now in another dimension. That is probably why science can't measure it and why many say they have never been contacted by their loved ones who have passed. Did anyone ever stop to think that spirits exist in a different dimension than humans? It is not possible for spirits to just zap into our dimension just so we can see and hear them. We certainly can't zap into their dimension unless we die. We have not designed a multidimensional measuring device that can measure them.
I do believe that some people can connect with loved ones who have departed through dreaming and EVP and some other means. Spirits don't have the means to just communicate with earthly humans as we think they should be able to. I can feel their presence but I can't hear a word. But I am almost certain that spirits don't communicate with a voice in their realm.
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,444,054 times
Reputation: 8955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar Delta
But I do understand precisely how we "see" in "3D". Please believe me. Human visual perception and qualia have always been extremely interesting subjects to me. What I am getting at is that we are talking about two completely different subjects, I think, and using the language in a different way to describe them.
Heh, perhaps I need to go back and get my linguistics degree! I probably shouldn't have even brought it up anyway, it's irrelevant to what happens after death. Did you see the article about existential passage? I'd love to know what others think of the concept.
Ok I let go and believe you!
I was so churned up about the 3D thing that I did not read your link. I will read it and give my 2 cents on what I think in a positive manner!
Peace And sorry I came across as a science snob
Its just that science is my passion and I love the crazy physiology of our human body!
I don't belive in religion. And how would science be able to see them? Science can't even expain dreams. Science can't measure or see someone in a dream either. Science has not even been able to see or measure our consciousness even though it exists.
Who said anything about our conscious minds existing after death? Dear the mind is gone upon death. The conscious energy is not.
The thing you are not keeping in perspective is that science has not been able to prove or disprove souls/spirits. Heck science does not even know what a black hole is. Or much at all about our Universe.
Sure it does
Yes I can. Man come back to planet earth...put the little brain game toy down and wake up. Tell that to all of the other humans that I see and interact with on these bike trips. They see the same thing I see. The ocean is our home. It is where we came from and it is real in our planet earth dimension.
A human on planet earth is the reality that we exist in. I believe in infinite dimensions in our Universe. We are just in one of those dimensions thus the reality that goes along with being an earthbound human.
But when we die our spirit or whatever you want to call is free from our body and is now in another dimension. That is probably why science can't measure it and why many say they have never been contacted by their loved ones who have passed. Did anyone ever stop to think that spirits exist in a different dimension than humans? It is not possible for spirits to just zap into our dimension just so we can see and hear them. We certainly can't zap into their dimension unless we die. We have not designed a multidimensional measuring device that can measure them.
I do believe that some people can connect with loved ones who have departed through dreaming and EVP and some other means. Spirits don't have the means to just communicate with earthly humans as we think they should be able to. I can feel their presence but I can't hear a word. But I am almost certain that spirits don't communicate with a voice in their realm.
You can believe what you want... but it's still just a belief in the end.
You may not feel the need to look beyond the "face value" of existence but for me it's extremely humbling to think about how much I don't know about it all... even the basics are potentially suspect!
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,444,054 times
Reputation: 8955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango
You can believe what you want... but it's still just a belief in the end.
You may not feel the need to look beyond the "face value" of existence but for me it's extremely humbling to think about how much I don't know about it all... even the basics are potentially suspect!
Thanks but I do look beyond the face value. That is why I practice Astral Projection, Deep Meditation and
Lucid Dreaming.
I certainly understand that there is much more out there and I am very humbled by that as well
BTW I understand brain plasticity as well.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ok whatever makes you feel better!
) no matter how much I try to do it, but that doesn't make Skyrim any more "real" because I still have limits in the game!
