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I do not think it has anything to do with "timeslipping" But rather the nature of memory and also the gonzo journalism that is so pervasive in celebrity culture.
I remember when Larry Hagmen died last November. My reaction was "He died several years ago"
No, he did not die several years ago, but I was convinced that I had HEARD on the news that he had died back in the 1990s. No time slip, but more of a memory slip. But I was convinced that he was already dead!
I remember one of my favorite TV Shows in the 1970s. There was a particular episode that I enjoyed watching, and I was excited to find it on DVD. When I watched it as an adult, it was not as I remember it. The dialog, the special effects, even the close ups were not as I remembered them from when I was 10 years old.
I do not think that the timeline changed over all these years, I simply think that I remembered the details that I found most interesting, and perhaps embellished or magnified them in my mind. That is the nature of human memory How Our Brains Make Memories | Science & Nature | Smithsonian Magazine
I agree, the idea of time slips and time line changes seems more interesting, and the facts of memory lapses seems more mundane, but in reality, sensationalism is usually more a product of fantasy or wishful thinking. Yes, life would be more exciting IF time warps and the lot occurred. Same can be said of ghosts, the Sasquatch, demons and gods, but in reality, it is the fabrication of the human mind that creates these memories.
Last edited by LargeKingCat; 08-14-2013 at 08:57 AM..
Reason: addendum link
It is only a big problem if you can not accept that there is more to the brain than just a physical 3D organ. If there is an interaction between the brain and the mind which has a connection into the universal consciousness, then this could be easily explained.
Yes, memories may be alterable and fluid, but time could be too, which may account for the different rememberance of events. Our mind is telling us we are on track 3C now whereas when the event happened we may have been on track 3A.
Of course my interpretation is only a feeling how this works and has no basis in science or any other current discipline. However, there have been experiments which suggest there may be a collective mind and there is quite a large body of circumstancial evidence to support something like this exists.
When I was four years old, my grandmother told me that thunder was the sound of the angels bowling in heaven. I accepted that there was more to thunder than just a physical phenomenon ... the angel hypothesis easily explained the sounds without needing a scientific explanation. But it was based on phenomena that are neither verifiable nor falsifiable ... angels and a heavenly bowling alley ... that are outside the bounds of science.
If there's a connection between the mind and universal consciousness, if time is alterable and fluid, science says "show me the beef", something beyond a "feeling that this is how it works". Research projects by organizations like Maharishi University or IONS don't qualify as scientific evidence, since they haven't been independently verified by other researchers and are not replicable on demand (in general, mistrust research by a single organization that confirms the beliefs of that organization). A hypothesis becomes a theory when it can be replicated at will by anyone with the same equipment, there is a large body of test results verifying it, and it makes specific predictions that can be verified. To hypothesize a phenomenon based on other hypotheses that aren't proven doesn't represent a falsifiable hypothesis regarding that phenomenon, hence is outside the bounds of science.
That's the problem with a lot of these paranormal phenomena ... they're not reproducible (that's why the formal field of parapsychology fizzled out), and attempts at theories regarding a phenomenon like timeslips are based on imagined realities (like a universal consciousness or mind-body dualism) for which there's no belief or coherent body of research. Same thing is true by the way of things like intelligent design which is just another attempt at selling creationism to the public (but that's a different conversation).
Show me a set of falsifiable hypotheses that can determine whether "timeslips" reflect a limitation in the mind's memory system or some supposed fluidity in time itself or some sort of alternate reality phenomenon, and an experiment can be set up to determine which is right. We know our memories are labile, but there's zero scientific evidence at present that timeslips or a collective consciousness exists. And even if someone proved there was a collective consciousness, that doesn't explain whatever mechanism would lie behind timeslips ... I can see no connection between the two, at any rate.
Occam's Razor says in essence, if you have two explanations of something, go with the simpler one that's based on fewer assumptions except for those assumptions that are absolutely necessary. I don't see that timeslips or a collective consciousness are absolutely necessary to explain what's happening here ... the known lability of memory can explain it all. So in the absence of convincing data to the contrary, that's what I'm goin' with. By the way, I'm not opposed in principle to the notion that there's a universal consciousness or subconscious ... consciousness is a peculiar thing, and seems to be tied into the nature of reality at the quantum level in ways we only partly understand. But I don't see the evidence other than personal experience that suggest it (and I've had quite a few experiences myself that seem to be evidence of connectedness to other people I know, what Jung would call synchronicity, but these are personal experiences and I don't trust my own memory of these events 100% ... I used to have a book from my undergrad days, circa 1972, which had the address of the Rhine Institute in Durham NC written in the endpapers; I was considering doing graduate work in psychology/parapsychology there, so I've never been what you'd call a complete "unbeliever" as you can tell from my other posts in this forum, but rather more of a healthy skeptic).
"Whenever possible, substitute constructions out of known entities for inferences to unknown entities." -- Bertrand Russell
I voted for, "Yes I have had this experience. I dont think it has anything to do with timeslips", though I'm torn between believing whether or not it was the result of a time-slip or not.
I'm intrigued by the science of these sorts of things. Time-slips, wormholes, other dimensions... it's all so fascinating.
I have a feeling it may work like this. Just my theory anyway.
If everyone lives in a holographically projected time bubble then each person projects his/her reality onto the inside of this screen and lives their life with this reality. As you progress spiritually, your vibration/energy increases and the timeline you are moving along changes to a 'better' one. One where things are better in your reality world. The content of your individual movie is a more pleasing one and has a happier ending.
Obviously, you interact with other players(friends/family members/etc) in this movie of life and so their bubbles intersect with yours bringing a small amount of their timelines in touch with yours. More people with lower vibration/energy who interact with your bubble will bring your own vibration down to more like their vibration or timeline. Similarly, more people of a higher vibration will increase your vibration and alter your timeline to a 'better' one. It is often said that being in the company of a master/saint/enlightened one will positively influence the events happening around you too.
Occasionally, due to cosmic alignments or timings etc, maybe the Earth itself gets a cosmic energy boost and so everyone gets a boost to their timelines, like a record or movie jumping to a different part of the track, events change and yet memories stored within you own timeline bubble are unchanged but the way forward is now on a different path of time/vibration. This does not change the past, but changes the events happening or projected onto the inside of your reality bubble in the future. If someone on the new timeline has survived an illness or accident, then they will not be experienced as 'dead' in this new timeline you are now moving along, yet you will still remember your 'old' memories because they are within your local bubble.
This would explain how you can experience a death of someone else and then suddenly find out they are still alive. It is very rare that this being dead and then hearing they are alive happens to someone close to us (maybe because we tend to move in groups with similar vibration/energy/timelines) but usually happens to someone who is unrelated and a far-away-interest-group member such as a celeb or public figure.
I thought for a while that Sean Connery was dead. I don't know really why, but then I saw him in some movie, perhaps The Highlander or The Presidio. I don't think it's a time slip. It may be that I confused him with someone else, misconstrued some news about him or, simply, because he hadn't made a movie in a while, I thought he had passed. It's happened, for me, with some other famous personalities.
I think that approximately 30% of a very small group is a good result and one which needs more investigation. Not scientifically significant in any way of course.
The problem is that science cannot get a handle on any of these things from ghosties to timeslips, so of course they will be uncomfortable about investigating it. There is absolutely NO repeatability which is what they all cry from the rooftops. They need their proof and proof cannot be delivered - at least in our lifetime probably.
Lets turn this thing on its head and say that science has to modify its methods to encompass things which cannot be repeated. There are so many of these events that are being left out of the 'science' discilpine which are experienced by us all the time and sometimes in HUGE numbers. Just off the top of my head, alien abductions is an example and poltergeists is another.
It should not be up to the experiencer to make a case for the experience. It should be up to science to come up with a method of studying EVERYTHING and if there is not one currently, then they need to invent one which satisfies their requirements. Either that or modify their requirements. It is ridiculous to say "we cannot study that because it is not repeatable" - Thats life, get over it and work within its limitations.
The fact that so many people (and groups of people like families) have these experiences of remembering hearing/reading someone dead is significant.
There are instances where people have gone to functions in rememberance of the dead person. There are instances where there have been news footage of the even too. Of course, not so many, but there have been some.
Are these ALL memory mistakes? If only one is true and NOT misremembered, then the case has been proved that there is something happening to our timelines. (Ok, well, maybe not memory mistakes <> timelines, but certainly needs more investigation!)
I find it amazing that some people will believe what science says over their own remembered experiences. We live our whole life remembering stuff from associating a face with a name to when our kids were born, to what we were doing the day Elvis died if that is important to us. Basically, memory it is a fundemental part of our life and now science goes along telling us that we remembered it wrong. Who are they to say this? They dont live in our heads, and they are not 100% correct. Scientists, doctors, lawyers, etc are not gods, they dont understand the way the Universe works or our mind/body connection for that matter. [/rant]
Since a child I, for some totally unknown reason, remembered the death of Nelson Mandella. I'm not sure why I even have that seared in my brain since pre-teen years, anyway, but there it is. It's something I've often wondered about but never really mentioned, until now...
Anyone else?
Last edited by ~HolyNinja~; 08-19-2013 at 08:12 PM..
Reason: clarity
I thought for a while that Sean Connery was dead. I don't know really why, but then I saw him in some movie, perhaps The Highlander or The Presidio. I don't think it's a time slip. It may be that I confused him with someone else, misconstrued some news about him or, simply, because he hadn't made a movie in a while, I thought he had passed. It's happened, for me, with some other famous personalities.
We tend to 'follow' certain celebs, ones we are interested in. We watch their movies, listen to their songs, etc. This means that when we hear they have died, we usually go to papers or websites or fanclubs etc to verify if this has REALLY happened. We have an interest in finding out if this is true or not. Of course in these cases we hope they live forever because we want to continue to be pleased with their products(films/music/etc). Now, if we find from 'authorative' sources that the news is true, then we start to believe it and relay it to others to share our disappointment.
So we need to find people who we 'followed' at the time and we were disappointed and possibly devastated at the news of their death. This makes the evidence that much stronger because of the interest in those celebs at the time and the subsequent moving on to follow other celebs after their 'death'.
Taking an example of Billy Graham, many religious people have followed BG throughout his life and their relgous beliefs were strengthened because of him. Now, is it likely that if they heard of his death, that they would not do some investigation?
At least talking to other religious people who also followed BG would be a certainty. Someone would find out his death was not true and everyone would sigh a huge sigh of relief at the realisation.
So, now do you think that it is a mis-rememberance? I dont. (although I never followed BG myself, but he is one of the many celebs who people cite as an example of 'dead' celebs coming back again)
Not sure about Sean Connery though. Personally, I did not hear of him going upstairs before, but I certainly did about BG because my father was religious.
A big problem with this timeslip hypothesis is, our memories are labile ... which is to say, we rewrite them over time. They're not like storage on a computer hard drive. That's why eyewitness testimony is unreliable ... and why "recovered memories" and "past life regression" are unconvincing. Our biases and expectations color the event, and the event tends to change a bit each time we retell it. I've heard that law school profs will sometimes have someone come into a class at the beginning of the class to ask for directions, and then ask the class later to write down what the person was carrying. This is to demonstrate the unreliability of eyewitnesses.
You can often see this when you talk with old friends or family members about things that happened a long while ago ... there will be details that differ in the retelling. This has nothing to do with "craziness" or the quality of our brain circuits, it's just the way human memory works (or doesn't work). See:
The problem is that science cannot get a handle on any of these things from ghosties to timeslips, so of course they will be uncomfortable about investigating it. There is absolutely NO repeatability which is what they all cry from the rooftops. They need their proof and proof cannot be delivered - at least in our lifetime probably.
Lets turn this thing on its head and say that science has to modify its methods to encompass things which cannot be repeated. There are so many of these events that are being left out of the 'science' discilpine which are experienced by us all the time and sometimes in HUGE numbers. Just off the top of my head, alien abductions is an example and poltergeists is another.
You mean events that cannot be repeated, like the resurrection of Christ, the ascent of Mohammed into heaven, and Moses' reception of the ten commandments on Mt Sinai? We have a name for phenomena that are sui generis: faith. And that's what most belief in paranormal phenomena, cryptids, alien abductions and the like boil down to.
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It should not be up to the experiencer to make a case for the experience. It should be up to science to come up with a method of studying EVERYTHING and if there is not one currently, then they need to invent one which satisfies their requirements. Either that or modify their requirements. It is ridiculous to say "we cannot study that because it is not repeatable" - Thats life, get over it and work within its limitations.
So you're demanding that the scientific method, which has worked just fine for us since the 16th century, needs to be modified to accommodate all anomalous, unexplained, and personal experiences to satisfy your desire to remake the scientific method to your specifications. Sorry, that's not going to happen.
This is basically a misunderstanding of how scientists deal with human experience: the researcher will say, person X says he/she experienced Y; if we eliminate the possibility of lying or delusion, what exactly did X experience? And why did he/she experience it ... was there a perceptual problem or illusion involved? Absent lying or delusion or misinterpretation, the scientist may choose to investigate further ... provided falsifiable hypotheses can be devised, and tested. Without testability, the problem is (as I said) outside the bounds of science. It has nothing to do with science being "uncomfortable" with the data.
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Are these ALL memory mistakes? If only one is true and NOT misremembered, then the case has been proved that there is something happening to our timelines. (Ok, well, maybe not memory mistakes <> timelines, but certainly needs more investigation!)
If they're not, show me. And if you are proposing more investigation, show me your hypotheses and how you propose investigating the phenomenon. Absent that, the scientist will say the "timeslips" are interesting, then ask, what do you expect him to do about it?
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Basically, memory it is a fundemental part of our life and now science goes along telling us that we remembered it wrong. Who are they to say this? They dont live in our heads, and they are not 100% correct. Scientists, doctors, lawyers, etc are not gods, they dont understand the way the Universe works or our mind/body connection for that matter. [/rant]
Who are they? Dedicated researchers who have spent decades studying the brain and memory both from the outside and within the human skull. Like it or not, there is a great deal of evidence for the lability of memory.
For the record, I have had many experiences I'd classify as unexplained or even paranormal. But I remain skeptical about them ... largely due to what I've learned in my clinical psych studies about the way perception and memory work. In short I don't trust my own perceptions or memory 100% any more. When I was considering graduate schools back in 1972, I was looking at going into doing psychology at Duke University and working with the Rhine Institute on parapsychological research. So I'm hardly a hard-core skeptic. I don't dismiss anything 100% either. Way back when, a friend and I were chatting with a well-known biology prof and researcher about the Loch Ness monster, and the possibility of getting a grant to do research. He replied that he thought a much more fruitful avenue for research was Sasquatch, and opened his stash of Sasquatch research and evidence. You seem to have a perception that scientists are close-minded. They're not; they're just ... very careful.
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