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Old 09-21-2013, 06:37 PM
 
150 posts, read 95,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
If NDE are real than answer the following for me:

1. Why did my father have no memory of an experience where according to his friends his heart had stopped and he wasn't breathing (until he was revived) because of carbon monoxide poisoning?

2. Why does a close relative who has had several experiences where she went into insulin shock and passed out and was near death have no memories of that?

3. Why do I have no memories of surgery of being out of my body when I have surgery or a medical procedure performed with anesthesia that renders me completely unconscious?

4. Why do so many of these experiences neatly fit religious beliefs of the people who have them?
1: Not everyone whose heart has stopped experiences the spiritual realm to a point where he or she can come back and tell of it; in fact, a cardiologist may consider the person whose heart has stopped to be dead, while another professional may not. A neurosurgeon, for instance, may define that moment as the one in which the person's brain stops functioning, i.e. "brain dead."

2. Your close relative who went into a diabetic coma was not really dead, was he/she?

3. You did not have a NDE because your spirit had not separated from your body despite the fact that your consciousness has been suppressed. The people who have these near-death experiences actually do so when the spirit leaves the physical/body.

4. Religious beliefs do often play a role in where a person's spirit goes once their bodies die. I am of the belief that people who do not ascribe to the *"C" faith may go to a realm other than the heaven referred to by those with "C" beliefs. This is a vast universe, is it not?

I also believe that people who decidedly dedicate themselves to the lower planes of life, if you will, may very well find themselves bound to a sort of netherworld upon physical death. Maybe there are degrees of hell; who knows? There is no shortage of stories relating demonic and other, often lesser, negative energies that could very well be the spirits of those evil people after death.

But a person's religious beliefs prior to death do not always influence the outcome of the individual's NDE. Read about the neurosurgeon, Dr. Eben Alexander, an academic scientist, who suffered a brain infection (ironically), died and then went to a heavenly realm, escorted by an angel. Prior to this NDE he could not reconcile science with the idea of a God or a heaven. Since his near-death experience he has become a firm believer in Heaven and life after death. Here's a link if you want to read more: HOME | Life Beyond Death

Finally, I think it's important to keep in mind this fact: Our bodies are matter, yes, but matter in its most basic state is simply energy. Energy continues on, to other places, other realms, other kingdoms... or so they say - that is, the people who have actually died and come back to life. In any case, we won't know for sure until we have our own NDE or until we die and don't come back.

Last edited by StayingAfterSunday; 09-21-2013 at 06:55 PM..
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Old 09-21-2013, 06:57 PM
 
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Memories are stored in our brain. We remember things our brain experienced. When one dies, passes on, has an NDE, etc, the brain never left the body. It never entered some nether realm, or spirit world, or whatever. It stayed put inside your head, on the table, on the side of road, or where ever you nearly died. So how would people remember an NDE, which implies their spirit leaving their body? The brain never experienced it; it stayed put in the 'temporarily' dead body. This is a huge reason why I think NDE's are nothing more than the brain itself reacting to oxygen deprivation and/or dmt release. You cannot remember something your brain did not experience therefore never stored as a memory.
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:11 AM
 
5,128 posts, read 6,399,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StayingAfterSunday View Post
But a person's religious beliefs prior to death do not always influence the outcome of the individual's NDE. Read about the neurosurgeon, Dr. Eben Alexander, an academic scientist, who suffered a brain infection (ironically), died and then went to a heavenly realm, escorted by an angel. Prior to this NDE he could not reconcile science with the idea of a God or a heaven. Since his near-death experience he has become a firm believer in Heaven and life after death. Here's a link if you want to read more: HOME | Life Beyond Death
NOT that guy. He's been thouroughly debunked. See my previous post and the whole separate thread on him including a link to the investigative writer who debunked him.
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:06 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
10,144 posts, read 18,608,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thHour View Post
Memories are stored in our brain. We remember things our brain experienced. When one dies, passes on, has an NDE, etc, the brain never left the body. It never entered some nether realm, or spirit world, or whatever. It stayed put inside your head, on the table, on the side of road, or where ever you nearly died. So how would people remember an NDE, which implies their spirit leaving their body? The brain never experienced it; it stayed put in the 'temporarily' dead body. This is a huge reason why I think NDE's are nothing more than the brain itself reacting to oxygen deprivation and/or dmt release. You cannot remember something your brain did not experience therefore never stored as a memory.
Please read these questions as if you believe that all these people are telling the truth as they believe it to be. Yes I'm aware that some are not, but I refuse to believe that they're all lying.

And yet people do remember them so how would you explain that?

How is it that they can repeat conversations that took place in the waiting room while they were being resuscitated? Sometimes to the extreme discomfort of those who had the conversation. You know the brain can't travel in there, yet there have been several reports of this happening.

How can a child see a g-ma she's never met and carry messages back to her parents and tell them things that only g-ma and they could have known? I don't know if you saw The Sixth Sense, but there's a tear-jerking scene in there where the little boy tells his mom that g-ma was at her dance recital once when she was little, even though the mom never knew it at the time. Also, grandma told him to tell his mom where her bumblebee pin was. At that point, you just know there is truth there. Yes I know the movie is fiction, but based upon true stories of NDE's.
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Old 09-25-2013, 02:57 AM
 
150 posts, read 95,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooting Stars View Post
NOT that guy. He's been thouroughly debunked. See my previous post and the whole separate thread on him including a link to the investigative writer who debunked him.
Oh, not THAT guy.... you must mean Luke Dittrich, Contributing editor of Esquire, Mag.
Seems he's been debunked, too, by investigative writer Robert Mays: Please see link below for details.

220. Esquire Proof of Heaven Expose Debunked, Dr. Eben Alexander Prevails | Skeptiko - Science at the Tipping Point
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:08 PM
 
5,128 posts, read 6,399,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StayingAfterSunday View Post
Oh, not THAT guy.... you must mean Luke Dittrich, Contributing editor of Esquire, Mag.
Seems he's been debunked, too, by investigative writer Robert Mays: Please see link below for details.

220. Esquire Proof of Heaven Expose Debunked, Dr. Eben Alexander Prevails | Skeptiko - Science at the Tipping Point
That's a lot to read and I will read it all later. I did scan it quickly however, and it seems to repeat itself in spots.

It still doesn't address one of the most disturbing things from the Esquire article, which is Dr. Alexander's past history as a surgeon and the bad mistakes he made with patients.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:09 AM
 
Location: PRC
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I think what we forget is that eastern religions have documented the death process (as they see it, of course) For example the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Western religions do not seem to want to investigate too closely as it means going into areas where they are uncomfortable and is traditionally (in the west) left to the occult societies to investigate. Not everything done by the occult societies is 'evil' or 'bad' and I would argue that we need groups who are willing to go into these areas in more detail so that we can read and appreciate the similarities between cultures and beliefs in order to find some common ground and possibly some truth too.

Only in this way can we hope to draw some of the threads together to arrive at what may be a picture of what happens around death and after death.

I am sure there are many very interesting books and manuscripts within the Vatican Library which would give a lot more detail into what they reckon is going on and which would be really useful and informative if only these documents could be released (if they exist). If there is nothing in there which challenges the Catholic faith, then there is no reason not to open up the Vatican Library to worldwide scholars and researchers.
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Old 10-06-2013, 01:37 AM
 
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I haven't read past the first page on this topic,I will just say that I was drowned once at 14 y/o and resuscitated about 15 minutes later,I didnt experience anything then. Fast forward 4 years, a week before my 18th birthday I had a classic NDE in hospital,the doctors where amazed that I was found to be still alive when I was to be taken to the morgue.I'm not religious or superstitious by any means and I half dismissed it as the most incredibly lucid dream one could have. Fast forward again 20 odd years and I was reading a magazine which included an article about NDEs this was the first I had heard of other people experiencing the same thing,exactly the same thing? You could have knocked me over with a feather it gave me goose bumps to have my first impression confirmed, to now know that it was real.Now I know where the idea of heaven comes from, its there alright minus the religious baloney. I mentioned my NDE on another website and was attacked and derided by the usual suspects.It just makes me wonder how many others have had this experience but haven't shared it for fear of ridicule from the likes of Ignorarmus Vulgari.
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:20 AM
 
Location: PRC
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You will always find people who want to push their view of life on us. Even when we have had experiences like you have redrooster which confirm to us our reality. It could also be that they want us to believe what they believe in order to validate it for them - almost like the more people who believe it, the truer it is for them. I continue to have great problems with folks who want proof of everything particularly scientific proof which many of the things I believe in, cannot provide.
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
19,345 posts, read 14,820,533 times
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Redrooster...I luv it...'its there alright minus the religious baloney'..
Couldn't have said it better.
Welcome here.

I guess I should start a separate thread on my recent flash of a past life...ok....
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