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Old 04-18-2014, 12:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
By the way, the far side of the moon would be a dangerous place to build cities considering the meteorite bombardment going on there.
Most of the craters on both sides of the moon formed long ago. However, there have been recent meteor strikes seen occuring on the near side of the moon. Not much, but it does happen, and perhaps more often than thought. Here's a video of one that hit the moon, September 2013. It was estimated to be a half-ton rock, and said to be the biggest one observed, big enough to make a crater. I'm not saying meteors don't hit the far side of the moon, but probably not any more frequently than the near side. That said, the far side of the moon certainly has a lot more craters and no sizable flatlands like like those on the near side. The reason for the lack of flatlands is that the near side of the moon is more influenced to change from tidal flexing. That would've been when the interior of the moon was still hot. I agree, the far side is not exactly a great location for building cities, not to mention there's no view of the Earth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmS7znBpyJ0

Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
The formation of one those craters was witnesses by some monks a few centuries ago.
You mean the near side of the moon, don't you? The story is said to have happened in 1178 AD creating the 14 mile wide Giordano Bruno crater is a myth. It doesn't hold up for several reasons, one of which is that such an event would've been by people all over, not just a few monks, but there are no historical accounts of the event. That doesn't mean they didn't see something, just not a gigantic meteor impact on the moon.
Spaceflight Now | Breaking News | What medieval witnesses saw was not big lunar impact
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Old 04-18-2014, 06:55 AM
 
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It's too bad Michael Crichton died before he would write a book like a dark side of the moon concept.
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Old 04-18-2014, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
Read it first.
Yes. To understand 2001 (the movie) you really have to read the book first. The movie is beautiful and awe-inspiring in places, but largely incoherent storywise.
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Old 04-18-2014, 12:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
I have seen so called leaked images of the "real" far side of the moon and its scattered with structures all over the surface.
Alrighty, you make many statements but have no examples for us to see. Where are these "leaked" images?
Heresay will not get you anywhere in a court of law!
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Old 04-19-2014, 02:52 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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That's the one. Apparently what was seen was a "flaming torch" on the edge of the visible disk originating from behind the horizon. The monks would likely not have been the only ones to have seen it but because they were scholars they recorded it. It may not have been the formation of the Giordano Bruno impact crater but I am only finding supportive reports - not proof though.

Quote:
The hypothesis of Hartung, that the impact formation of lunar crater Giordano Bruno (103° east, 36° north) was observed and recorded 800 years ago, is considered in the context of data from the Luna 24 mission and laser range observations. It is concluded that (i) the event would certainly have been visible, and (ii) current determinations of the free libration in longitude in the moon's rotation are consistent with the hypothesis. Such a study cannot prove Hartung's interpretation, but it is nonetheless supportive of it.
There should be more meteor impacts on the far side because the near side is somewhat protected by the earth's gravity. The gets some 33 metric tonnes of meteor impacts per day. Very few reach the surface.

Last edited by 303Guy; 04-19-2014 at 03:05 AM..
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Old 04-19-2014, 09:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
There should be more meteor impacts on the far side because the near side is somewhat protected by the earth's gravity. The gets some 33 metric tonnes of meteor impacts per day. Very few reach the surface.
It's important to understand that the Earth also has an atmosphere that meteors have to pass through. Depending on the composition of the meteors, some arrive intact to create craters. Most burn up leaving tiny fragments to land on the Earth, most of which land in the oceans. Some explode in the atmosphere. And some just skip through the atmosphere and head back out into space. The Moon, on the other hand, has no real atmosphere and no oceans, so impacts and crater formation are more abundant. There's no wind or rain to erode craters on the moon.

It's not so much that the far side of the moon get more meteor impacts. Meteors can impact either side. If that were not the case, then there shouldn't be any craters on the near side. What we have on the far side is an ancient record of impact craters that have formed throughout the history of the moon.

The near side has plenty of craters to be sure. That is evidenced by the presence of the mare or maria, which are the large darker basaltic plains where fewer craters are found. There are some mare on the far side, they're very small in comparison and can be found in craters as seen in the photo you posted So why is there such a difference? The mare were formed by molten material from beneath the lunar crust that flowed out resulting in a smoother surface and covering any external signs of previous craters that probably existed there before the mare formed. Here's a link that might help give a little better understanding about it.
Lunar mare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Earth's gravity is not strong enough with the moon to protect it from meteor impacts, especially sizable impacts. Again, meteors can strike either side of the moon. The abundance of craters on the far side are much older. No doubt new craters form on the far side, but the frequency of impacts would be about the same as on the near side.

In any case, I still fully agree with you that building cities with structures that are miles tall on the far side of the moon wouldn't exactly be the most practical location. If anything, going underground would be the best option. Regardless, there aren't any cities anywhere on the moon as gosboi78 seems to insist.
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Old 04-19-2014, 11:17 AM
 
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the aliens are among us...take a good look at james carville...
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Old 04-19-2014, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Thanks for that.
Quote:
Earth's gravity is not strong enough with the moon to protect it from meteor impacts, especially sizable impacts.
I was thinking that meteors would be more strongly attracted to the earth and so would be tending to move toward the earth and that the moon would sometimes get in the way, thereby increasing the hits to the far side. Also considering that the hits would tend to come from the direction in which the earth-moon is heading in orbit around the sun. OK, even if the impact rate is equal all round, there is a large number if micro hits taking place.
Quote:
The gets some 33 metric tonnes of meteor impacts per day.
That was a typo - "The earth gets 33 tonnes of hits per day (mostly dust sized particles I think?)
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
Thanks for that.I was thinking that meteors would be more strongly attracted to the earth and so would be tending to move toward the earth and that the moon would sometimes get in the way, thereby increasing the hits to the far side. Also considering that the hits would tend to come from the direction in which the earth-moon is heading in orbit around the sun. OK, even if the impact rate is equal all round, there is a large number if micro hits taking place.
The Earth and Moon are in a gravitational dance, so to speak. When you get far enough out the gravitational pull of the Earth gets weaker and in turn the gravitational effect of the Moon gets stronger. Both the Earth and the Moon get their share of debris, so you're right, there's a large number of micro hits taking place all the time.

As for the far side potentially getting more strikes than the near side, keep in mind that the Moon is orbiting the Earth. If the Moon was somehow stationary, and not orbiting the Earth, but rather following the Earth with the far side always facing the direction of the outer planets, then in a sense, I suppose the far side would be more exposed to hits. It would also mean that our view of the Moon would always be that of a full moon. The back side of the Moon gets its share of exposure to the Sun when its between the Earth and the Sun. Again, all sides of the Moon have an equal share of meteor strikes. Some meteors can travel closer to the Sun then orbit back in the direction of the outer planets, And as those are heading toward Earth and the Moon from the direction of the Sun, they can strike the sunlit parts just as easily as those coming in from the direction of the outer planets can strike. Some of the debris are from the asteroid belt, but some debris come from much farther out, comets are a good example of objects that can pepper the Earth and the Moon with dust particles left behind by the comet's tail.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
That was a typo - "The earth gets 33 tonnes of hits per day (mostly dust sized particles I think?)
I understood that you meant the Earth.


Richard Hoagland is one of those who likes to tout about huge ancient crystal-like structures on the Moon. But then again, Hoagland also claims there are forests of gigantic trees on Mars that grow nearly a mile high and exposed tunnels that are either from gigantic Martian worms or used as an underground passageway for aliens. As for the Moon buildings, I've seen the images, and you've really got to stretch your imagination to "see" any such structures. If anything, I'd say such images are camera or film related flaws and pareidolia, like seeing the face on Mars.
Pareidolia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Thanks. I got the idea of earth sorta shielding the moon from when Shoemaker-Levi 9 hit Jupiter. It was being said that Jupiter attracted incoming debris which sorta protected earth. I assumed it would have been to a lesser extent. What a scientist said about the earth shielding the moon is that it would be to the extent of some 3 square minutes of arc worth IIRC. Not a helluva lot. And I had forgotten about the lava flows on the near side of the moon and didn't know the lunar crust was thinner on the near side side. So thank you for for enlightening me. I'm still amazed by the 33 tonnes per day!

And that recent meteoroid hit was from the May meteorite shower stream. Interesting meteorite impact pattern on the moon.

http://science.nasa.gov/media/medial...mpacts_med.jpg

And this is the explanation to what the monks saw in 1178 AD

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0104/19bruno/

Last edited by 303Guy; 04-22-2014 at 12:02 AM..
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