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Old 05-07-2014, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Arizona
546 posts, read 462,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
Thanks thegreenflute334. That is most interesting.Ummm ... No I can't. I could say all kinds of clever things that would make it sound like you didn't actually have that dream but that would be bigger BS than the experience I'd be trying to debunk. People can say they don't believe it but that's all.
I'd like to add my two cents worth on this subject. NDE's and OBE's are very interesting, and it's hard to find a link between some of them, where you would be able to set up certain parameters defining similarities that they all have. I'm a believer in God, but I'd like to attempt to give a few ideas from that perspective without coming on as religious; just take it for what it may be worth.

I believe, like the Apostle Paul did, that we are made up of a body, soul, and spirit. The body is your physical being containing all of it's systems, like nervous system, circulatory, etc. The soul is your thought process, and it is closely linked with the nervous system, yet, as many may place the two together, they are actually separate, the soul being more of an impulse system, or electrical system. The spirit on the other hand, is completely different from the physical system, and is our connection to God. Some people live this life and can sense the spirit more than others. But, I believe that God does not inhabit some magical place somewhere out there in the universe, but He inhabits a different dimension that is all around us, and it also does not have the same sense of time, because in that dimension, time has a non-value. It says that 'God is light', so since the theory of relativity says that time ceases at the speed of light, it is not unreasonable to think that God exists in timelessness. I also believe that the spirit of each person is individualized, in that it contains the same basic personality characteristics of the physical person, yet it operates on a different dimension, or a different plane.

Many people confuse soul with spirit, or consider them the same thing, which is an easy thing to do because they both are ethereal and lack material substance. In the ancient writings, it was often confusing also, but in the Greek, the two words were 'pneuma', meaning 'air' or 'spirit', and 'pseuche', meaning 'of the psyche or thought', or 'soul'. Both spirit and soul are capable of thought, but are different operating systems, unconsciously communicating with each other in varying degrees, yet still operationally separate. There is a verse in the Bible that says that 'the life is in the blood', this word 'life' being translated as 'soul'. Since the circulatory system delivers nutrient and oxygen to each cell, and each cell is also connected to the nervous system, it makes sense that the circulatory and nervous systems are connected in this way, and the electrical impulses of thought (or soul) are capable of being throughout the body. It is an amazingly totally interconnected system.

So, when a person's brain flat-lines, it essentially means that the electrical system of the soul shuts down. There is no longer any physical thought, and for all practical purposes, it would be like unplugging a computer...all function that we can relate to, ceases. As long as the physical system remains functional, the person can be unconscious, with no memory of the event. Yet, even in this state, some people's spirits are drawn out from their bodies maybe because of the closeness of death. But on the other hand, if the system ceases to emit an electrical impulse, the spirit of that individual is released. Remember that I said that this spirit is individualized. It has sight, sound, thought, memory, but no definite physical presence. From living within this person, it obtained all of those things in the same perspective that the physical systems obtained them, and the memories are identical, in fact, the spirit would think that it WAS that person; which in containing the same life information, it would be very difficult to distinguish one from another. Since the spirit is of the other dimension, it is connected to that other dimension that God inhabits, and during the NDE, the spirit releases from the body and begins to float up and away from that body. It is being drawn back to its native realm, (hence the often spoken of 'tunnel of light'). If resuscitation occurs within a fairly short period of time, (which could seem long and damaging to the physical body), then the spirit is pulled back into the body as it was before.
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:31 PM
 
174 posts, read 274,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
Something I've been reading about lately - the debunking of OBE's. How would anyone be able to debunk an OBE? Can anyone debunk a dream I had or say I've had?
NDEs typically do involve an OBE, so to some extent they are related. However, even I am highly skeptical of people who routinely report self-induced OBEs, such as Robert Monroe (who founded an institute and wrote several books about his "travels"). An early researcher named Crookall, who likewise wrote several books about the OBE phenomenon, debunked his own OBEs. During his OBE, he very carefully noted the time on the clock and the shadows of objects in the room. The OBE seemed UTTERLY real, and he was sure it was. However, the next morning he carefully marked with tape the position of the shadows of all of the objects from his OBE. The next evening, at the same time, he observed that the shadows were UTTERLY incorrect -- nowhere near where they "should" have been (and some actually in impossible positions). Efforts to have people who claim to be able to induce OBEs read numbers placed on the top of light fixtures and whatnot have likewise been largely (although not completely) unsuccessful. I have had a number of paranormal experiences, and the truths that I've discovered are (1) the harder you try to induce them, the less successful you are going to be -- they occur on their own terms; and (2) they always have a quirky, "trickster" quality about them -- they may be utterly convincing to a believer, but they always leave just enough of a loophole for a debunker to seize upon. So I have little hope that we are ever going to nail down, to the satisfaction of diehard skeptics and debunkers, precisely what NDEs and OBEs "really" are. What is stranger to me are those folks who flatly dismiss and deride these phenomena when they clearly know next-to-nothing about them. I know next-to-nothing about string theory in physics, and it sounds almost comically improbable to me, but I don't litter Internet forums with angry posts saying that string theory is all silly BS and anyone who thinks otherwise is a credulous fool.
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:44 PM
 
174 posts, read 274,321 times
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Originally Posted by trumpethim View Post
Since the circulatory system delivers nutrient and oxygen to each cell, and each cell is also connected to the nervous system, it makes sense that the circulatory and nervous systems are connected in this way, and the electrical impulses of thought (or soul) are capable of being throughout the body. It is an amazingly totally interconnected system.
You may be familiar with the WEIRD, WEIRD, WEIRD phenomenon where recipients of heart transplants and other organs mysteriously acquire some of the traits, interests, likes and dislikes of the donors. Some of these are quite well-documented and certainly suggest that the brain isn't the only place where the "person" resides.

Quote:
It is being drawn back to its native realm, (hence the often spoken of 'tunnel of light'). If resuscitation occurs within a fairly short period of time, (which could seem long and damaging to the physical body), then the spirit is pulled back into the body as it was before.
Or the "silver cord" that has REPEATEDLY been described by sensitives as connecting the spirit to the body, as being capable of being stretched quite incredible lengths, and as being severed only upon true, irrevocable physical death.

On the religious note, I remember Campus Crusade teaching (40+ years ago) that humans consist of body, mind and spirit and that the spirit is essentially "switched off" until it is activated by inviting Christ into one's life. That is probably a crude analogy, but it has seemed to me many, many times over the years that some people, typically those who do have no interest in spiritual matters, really do have a "dead circuit" or are lacking in some dimension that others have.
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:38 PM
 
Location: NW AR
2,438 posts, read 2,380,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Venerable Bede View Post



Or the "silver cord" that has REPEATEDLY been described by sensitives as connecting the spirit to the body, as being capable of being stretched quite incredible lengths, and as being severed only upon true, irrevocable physical death.

On the religious note, I remember Campus Crusade teaching (40+ years ago) that humans consist of body, mind and spirit and that the spirit is essentially "switched off" until it is activated by inviting Christ into one's life. That is probably a crude analogy, but it has seemed to me many, many times over the years that some people, typically those who do have no interest in spiritual matters, really do have a "dead circuit" or are lacking in some dimension that others have.
Yes and No. I think your first post is correct to a degree but that is more astral -projection. I don't think that is considered an OBE. OBE is afterlife or something of a physical death.. Astral is with your brain and has very little to do with your body. Your body is just what you see and it's pretty small... I've done that a few times and it was just natural thing that happened, and no where near a physical death or illness. The point is, the silver cord represents ( yes) your spirit attached to your body but no one can continue to do it. ( Or I couldn't) The rules are so strong and explicit..no one dares to defy them. I don't do it anymore and I probably still have the ability. And most of the time I did it, I didn't plan it. I think it's probably safe to say.. that someone can cross like that - five or six times.. and that is IT! For me it happened maybe six times.. but what happens is you know you are walking a fine line and it does ( somewhat) have to do death but not really. On scale of 10-100.. The silver cord would be thirty five percent at the most. The big deal about the silver cord is the rules.

It's a universal law that you cannot bring that back. I remember my experiences but they are pretty much in other dimensions that cannot be brought back here. So when I went, it was like I was greeted by people that I have known forever.. but not here. They don't exist in this world and you can't bring those experiences back here because your brain is not allowed to remember them. I think there is one that I brought back.. but it's not in the front of my head ( as of right now)

The silver cord ( in my thinking) is almost like a death sentence. When you put yourself in that position, you already know that you've gone to far, and you are not suppose to bring it back and because it not allowed to be brought back and if you cross that line... it will result in death, as in DEFYING a universal law and has nothing to do with going to far on a silver cord. The silver cord is what you see.. but when you go that far.. you're understanding changes. Nothing is verbal.. it's all telepathic and it is known..

I'll reply to the second part of you post in a minute.

Last edited by thegreenflute334; 05-07-2014 at 07:59 PM..
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Old 05-07-2014, 09:22 PM
 
Location: NW AR
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Also astral-projection ( in my opinion) is rejection of self. When I did that, I was going through some pretty hard times mentally and it was something that happened but I don't personally take that much stock in it even though I have done it. For number one, you can't bring any of it back. So, rejection of self would be a tear in the triangle.. of spirit, mental and physical.

To be on an operating table and being near death.. I have known a couple of people that have done that.. I have never experienced it.
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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I know someone who learned to do 'self induced OBE'. She says that on one occasion (her last) she couldn't get back into her body! Obviously she did but with a struggle and this frightened her so she stopped doing it. Unfortunately, she didn't gather any evidence for proof - she didn't need to, she knew what what was happening. To her it was real enough. Like she would project herself into her neighbours lounge while they were watching TV. She didn't note the programme and check with them what they had been watching. Pity.

The way I see it is that an OBE or NDE only occurs when someone is still alive so tells us nothing of what happens after death. Unless one considers such accounts where the NDE'er meets up with a close relative who is known to be still alive and then it turns out that that person had in fact just died. And there are a few of those. Unfortunately, we (or I) have no way of checking the story. These could be made up stories. Of course they could be quite genuine too, I just have no way of knowing.
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Old 05-16-2014, 04:09 PM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,307,598 times
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OBE's and NDE's are not the same thing. Your standard issue OBE is a dream(as evidenced by the dream world not aligning with the waking) NDE's are something else.
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Old 05-16-2014, 05:45 PM
 
Location: NW AR
2,438 posts, read 2,380,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
I know someone who learned to do 'self induced OBE'. She says that on one occasion (her last) she couldn't get back into her body! Obviously she did but with a struggle and this frightened her so she stopped doing it. Unfortunately, she didn't gather any evidence or proof

The way I see it is that an OBE or NDE only occurs when someone is still alive so tells us nothing of what happens after death. Unless one considers such accounts where the NDE'er meets up with a close relative who is known to be still alive and then it turns out that that person had in fact just died. And there are a few of those. Unfortunately, we (or I) have no way of checking the story. These could be made up stories. Of course they could be quite genuine too, I just have no way of knowing.
Yes and no again. I've done the same thing and could barely get back. Although I didn't travel to someone house and turn off of the TV, my body was pretty much shutting down. At that moment, if you don't make an effort.. you die. If you can't get back in-- you are dead. As far as dying.. you don't have the choice to come back ( but have the same 3-5 minutes) to react if you can make it back. So OBE's and NDE's are actually the same thing... but I never floated above my body and watched everything going on. I know why your girl friend stopped though. She knew when she pushed her limit and I don't do it anymore either.

It's much like the movie "Flatliners" but I think in the movie, they created more story for the the souls story ( or time for a longer story) before they pushed the limit while legally dead on the table... but you don't have that much in a reality.

Your organs naturally start shutting down..( if you are not on some type of life support system in the hospital) it starts with your breathing and then your lungs don't expand and your heart races, and when you get that point..you have to "break-in" and gasp for air.. but you have to force yourself to open your mouth. and then find the strength to get the air back in your lungs.. because they are locked..... then make yourself breathe when everything is in the natural process is shutting down. Scary stuff..

Edit: As far as finding proof for NDE's or OBE's.. I know of none. Doctors and scientists say the brain keeps functioning right before death. or after death...and that is thought to be hallucinations or just simple brain function.. I do know for a fact that the heart will keep beating after death for a few minutes because I have personally felt it when my mother was dying in the hospital. I had my hand on her heart, and when she quit breathing, her heart kept beating. I took that as hopeful sign but it was short lived.

Last edited by thegreenflute334; 05-16-2014 at 06:12 PM..
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