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Old 10-20-2014, 01:50 PM
 
25,736 posts, read 27,263,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
Except there are and always have been religions based principally on the acquisition of personal power or to gain favors from the gods, and others on meeting the bloody demands of the gods through human sacrifice. Sometimes these offerings came from the community, sometimes (as with the Aztecs) from prisoners or slaves. Looking at the history of religion, I don't think these motives are the exception to the rule.
Well, actually, blood sacrifice was more a matter of the times than certain religions being "based on" them. Even Judaism had a firm tradition - law, actually - that very overtly involved blood sacrifice. I doubt that anyone can say that because Judaism involved blood sacrifice, it was "based principally" on it. I'm not sure your other examples, or well, example - the Aztecs - could be fingered as such either, though we tend to focus on that type of sacrifice because a) it involved people, not animals and b) we always like to focus on the sensationalist. I'm sure the Aztecs did many, many, many other religious and spiritual things besides killing slaves.

Not all religions required sacrifice in ancient times; I believe there was only one sect of Hinduism that practiced it, and technically Hinduism as an umbrella forbids it. And I doubt Buddhism ever has required sacrifice, though I don't really have enough knowledge of Buddhism to firmly make a statement in that regard.

As far as gaining power and special favors from the Gods, even Christianity does this, though they mutely go about it in a way that seems pure and soft. It is called "prayer" or "petition." And yes, there are many, many practices in various sects of Christianity that are directly (and explicitly stated as such) designed to garner God's favor, earn a spot in paradise, get God to "listen" to your prayers, get people out of Purgatory faster and so on.
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,795 posts, read 4,510,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Well, actually, blood sacrifice was more a matter of the times than certain religions being "based on" them. Even Judaism had a firm tradition - law, actually - that very overtly involved blood sacrifice. I doubt that anyone can say that because Judaism involved blood sacrifice, it was "based principally" on it. I'm not sure your other examples, or well, example - the Aztecs - could be fingered as such either, though we tend to focus on that type of sacrifice because a) it involved people, not animals and b) we always like to focus on the sensationalist. I'm sure the Aztecs did many, many, many other religious and spiritual things besides killing slaves.
Judaism didn't do human sacrifice, so they're not really relevant. The Bible talks with loathing about the child sacrifices demanded by the god Moloch. The Aztecs saw blood sacrifice (including human) as a way to "ensure the continuity of the world and the balance of the universe". That's pretty central to their philosophical system. Yes, they did other things but human sacrifice was central to their beliefs though saying they were based principally on it was probably overstating things.

Quote:
Not all religions required sacrifice in ancient times; I believe there was only one sect of Hinduism that practiced it, and technically Hinduism as an umbrella forbids it. And I doubt Buddhism ever has required sacrifice, though I don't really have enough knowledge of Buddhism to firmly make a statement in that regard.
I wasn't saying all religions required blood sacrifice, but rather that there have always been religions that require it.

Quote:
As far as gaining power and special favors from the Gods, even Christianity does this, though they mutely go about it in a way that seems pure and soft. It is called "prayer" or "petition." And yes, there are many, many practices in various sects of Christianity that are directly (and explicitly stated as such) designed to garner God's favor, earn a spot in paradise, get God to "listen" to your prayers, get people out of Purgatory faster and so on.
You're right, many religions involve petitioning the gods.

Regarding Christianity ... it depends on the brand you're talking about. Mainstream Protestantism, Roman Catholicism, and Orthodoxy stress the central message: that God laid down the life of His Son for love of the world, and that we are to do the same. By contrast, the Prosperity Gospel types stress the "goodies" you can get from God through prayer. That's making personal gain the main point of your religion. Most Christians would respond, God isn't Santa Claus and prayer isn't about begging for desired outcomes. I'm Orthodox, and we teach that prayer is about asking forgiveness and mercy, not about getting desired outcomes or paying off a "debt" due to our sins (and we don't believe in Purgatory, BTW).

I have a hard time coming up with examples of religions that are principally (or solely) about power and acquisition; the only contemporary ones I can come with offhand are the Church of Satan, and the drug gang cult Santa Muerte in Mexico. A lot of folk religion involves power and acquisition: burn a black candle with the right magic words and your enemy will suffer, spritz some Money House Blessing spray round and you will come into money.
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:59 PM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,310,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Past life teaches us nothing to do with your subject, because if you hold to true Eastern religion concepts (not the California granola-eating version of it) past life is collective, not individual. The individual soul does not remain and is not reincarnated, memories of the individual do not carry over. Besides, why would you just happen to be associated with your aunt in a past life, of all the billions of souls in the world?

You learned nothing from regression therapy, because it's based on fallacy, suggestions, and false or forgotten memories (from this life). The issues with your Aunt belong to this life.
Who says eastern religions have it right? Reincarnation is a staple of pretty much every religion on the face of the earth. Used to be a part of christianity too.

Last edited by tofur; 10-21-2014 at 01:12 PM..
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Old 10-21-2014, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbiePoster View Post
I think what it means sometimes is that the antagonistic person is supposed to be learning from you. Just treat them politely, or even kindly if they're struggling with something (illness, for ex.), and they're supposed to be learning from that. If they fail to learn, that's their problem, they won't progress in the next life. They'll be stuck at Square One or Two.

Just a couple of my thoughts. I have a former co-worker who's become a friend over the years and we have coffee together several times a week. He's a type "A" personality and not always the most diplomatic and tends to dwell on the negative of many things. I'm a type "B" personality and generally positive about my outlook on life.

We enjoy each others company, and have some good conversations, but there have been many times I've wondered about his negativity and how it may affect my outlook on life by spending time together several times a week for an hour of coffee. I've thought about cutting back on our time together, but wasn't sure how to proceed with breaking with the tradition of us having coffee together 4 times a week without offending him.

Fast forward to yesterday. Long story short, he was very offended by what another patron said to him at the coffee house. The guy who said it was very abrasive about it and I can see why he was a bit offended. We left and he said he didn't ever want to go back to that coffee house and that there is another coffee house a distance away, and knowing I might not be able to make that one 4 days a week due to time/distance issues, we may have to cut back to having coffee just a couple times a week, rather than our usual 4 times.

When he said that, a lightning bolt fired in me.....and I thought, Oh my god, the "powers that be" in the universe are helping me by taking the decision to act out of my hands and forcing the issue. I was afraid to made the decision for fear of offending my friend, and so help arrived in the form of an abrasive individual who offended my friend and changed things in the way that I was trying to figure out how to do anyway.

I was initially very disgusted at this guy who offended my friend, but upon reflection, perhaps he was playing his role in this situation perfectly and for the greater good in my life ?? Who knows....but it sure seems to have worked out that way. Perhaps the lesson in all of this is that even nasty and abrasive individuals can and do play their role and at times serve a greater good.
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Old 10-21-2014, 01:48 PM
 
2,775 posts, read 3,259,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
Well I received a past life regression therapy after my late boyfriend committed suicide. This is the single most powerful experience of my healing journey.

My question is "can we escape from our past life?"

For example, if we learned that in our past life, we made mistakes and made some people miserable. Then in this life when we meet the same soul, how do we make up to them? What if these people are nasty to us.

I learned from my past life regression therapy that my aunt has been nasty to me in our past life. This life I still am not fond of her and she still is pretty nasty to me at least at one point or another.

How do I deal with this? Do I kill her with kindness or do I learn to just avoid her?

What exactly does our past life teach us? In your opinion?

Thank you
1) You already escaped your past life, you died in it and were reborn.

2) Live your current life, each day, as though it is your last. Be loving, be truthful, and let go of fear (let go of fear about what you have done in the past or how that defines you, and do not worry or fear for what the future may bring - you only have RIGHT NOW, RIGHT HERE that you can make changes to... the past is done, there are no do overs no matter how much you worry... the future doesn't care about your present worries regarding it!!!!!) BE HERE NOW.

3) Knowledge of your past lives can serve teach you why things that appear outside of your direct control happen. Your past life regression therapy was a tool to help you get to today with some understanding and to post what you did so we could respond. That is it... it's like learning of history, it can be useful, you can learn from it, or it can be unenlightening and irrelevant to where you are right now. So don't pin too much on this viewing of past lives as though it's the end all be all of your enlightenment today; it isn't. If people treat you like ****, be loving and get away... it's that simple. Don't let other people's issues become your own.

4) Here's what's cool... you now seem to understand that there is something beyond death; more life. So now you know there's a lot more to you than this "meat body" that you were born with. Take that knowledge with you and don't fear the future.
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Old 10-21-2014, 02:19 PM
 
14,056 posts, read 20,286,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
Who says eastern religions have it right? Reincarnation is a staple of pretty much every religion on the face of the earth. Used to be a part of christianity too.
Reincarnation is indeed a staple of every religion - that is, the cycle of death and being reborn.
Past life memories, however, is a Hollywood/20th century/"new age" concept for the most part that goes along with worshiping pyramids and assuming a lotus position and chanting "hummmmmm". Very few religions actually hold to that concept that you can actually remember your previous life (some American Indian religions perhaps).

To address your second post, that is if your post still exists after, ahem, moderation to your wording (lol, and I though the other guy was defensive) - I have provided a link. Note that my argument on proof of non-existence does not deal with the broad subject of reincarnation, or even with past life memories, but specifically with the concept of Past Life Regression, which invariably involves hypnosis. It should have all the detail you are looking for, test cases, sample sizes, statistical methodologies, and also references to past studies. It includes 4 studies actually. It's all very dry, but it leads to this conclusion:
"...our findings, along with the work of Kampman
(1976) and Wilson (1982) support the usefulness of viewing
hypnotically induced past-life identities as contextually generated,
rule-governed, goal-directed fantasies."


http://construct.haifa.ac.il/~ofram/spanos_et_al.pdf

I suggest that "hypnosis" is actually the danger factor here. It's not some magic cure of hidden memories, it simply a vehicle that allows false memories, dreams, snipets of books and movies, and suggestion to come to the forefront, and then for the patient and the practitioner to then proclaim some divine insight of a hidden or past memory (and we can all blame this for many of the silly adult claims of repressed child abuse memories by their parents).

Last edited by Dd714; 10-21-2014 at 03:17 PM..
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,795 posts, read 4,510,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Reincarnation is indeed a staple of every religion - that is, the cycle of death and being reborn.
Judaism and its offspring, Christianity and Islam, takes a linear view of history and was fairly unique I believe in doing so at that time in history and in that part of the world: that history has a unique beginning, and a unique end. There are other religions that take this view of history: Zoroastrianism, I believe, and the ancient Norse religions being examples. I believe Judaism developed this view of time during the intertestamental period (100BC-100AD) possibly under the influence of Zoroastrianism. There is often some regeneration of creation following this end.

Other religions take a cyclic view of time and history, and it's usually in those religions that you find reincarnation. I've read the "evidence" for reincarnation belief in the early Christian church, and it's pretty thin stuff. Origen, for example, believed in the preexistence of souls but that's not the same as belief in the transmigration of souls (and he was well aware of that belief among the Greeks). However, I think the mesoamerican religions believed in cyclic history and as far as I know did not believe in reincarnation (but I don't know all that much about their belief systems).

Quote:
I suggest that "hypnosis" is actually the danger factor here. It's not some magic cure of hidden memories, it simply a vehicle that allows false memories, dreams, snipets of books and movies, and suggestion to come to the forefront, and then for the patient and the practitioner to then proclaim some divine insight of a hidden or past memory (and we can all blame this for many of the silly adult claims of repressed child abuse memories by their parents).
Agree 100% with you on this one.
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Wastelands
251 posts, read 256,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
Well I received a past life regression therapy after my late boyfriend committed suicide. This is the single most powerful experience of my healing journey.

My question is "can we escape from our past life?"

For example, if we learned that in our past life, we made mistakes and made some people miserable. Then in this life when we meet the same soul, how do we make up to them? What if these people are nasty to us.

I learned from my past life regression therapy that my aunt has been nasty to me in our past life. This life I still am not fond of her and she still is pretty nasty to me at least at one point or another.

How do I deal with this? Do I kill her with kindness or do I learn to just avoid her?

What exactly does our past life teach us? In your opinion?

Thank you
I doubt we will ever be able to fully escape our past lives, but according to what I studied on this subject. You stop coming back once you learned all you needed, fulfill your ultimate purpose and reach your final evolution. My past life dates back about 5000 years on up to late 1800s. Apparently I'm back....again. *sigh*. Anyway, I suggest that you avoid your aunt. If she's been a jerk to you in another life and STILL IS, (how rotten can someone be to torment someone in 2 life times?) I say cut her off.
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Old 10-23-2014, 10:51 AM
 
Location: in your dreams
14,782 posts, read 15,223,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
Judaism didn't do human sacrifice, so they're not really relevant. The Bible talks with loathing about the child sacrifices demanded by the god Moloch. The Aztecs saw blood sacrifice (including human) as a way to "ensure the continuity of the world and the balance of the universe". That's pretty central to their philosophical system. Yes, they did other things but human sacrifice was central to their beliefs though saying they were based principally on it was probably overstating things.



I wasn't saying all religions required blood sacrifice, but rather that there have always been religions that require it.



You're right, many religions involve petitioning the gods.

Regarding Christianity ... it depends on the brand you're talking about. Mainstream Protestantism, Roman Catholicism, and Orthodoxy stress the central message: that God laid down the life of His Son for love of the world, and that we are to do the same. By contrast, the Prosperity Gospel types stress the "goodies" you can get from God through prayer. That's making personal gain the main point of your religion. Most Christians would respond, God isn't Santa Claus and prayer isn't about begging for desired outcomes. I'm Orthodox, and we teach that prayer is about asking forgiveness and mercy, not about getting desired outcomes or paying off a "debt" due to our sins (and we don't believe in Purgatory, BTW).

I have a hard time coming up with examples of religions that are principally (or solely) about power and acquisition; the only contemporary ones I can come with offhand are the Church of Satan, and the drug gang cult Santa Muerte in Mexico. A lot of folk religion involves power and acquisition: burn a black candle with the right magic words and your enemy will suffer, spritz some Money House Blessing spray round and you will come into money.
Yeah hey thanks for bringing satanic blood rituals into the mix here as a response to my last post... You win the Holy Tangent award.
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Old 10-23-2014, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 9,263,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Reincarnation is indeed a staple of every religion - that is, the cycle of death and being reborn.
However the Buddhists goal is to finally reach a point of stopping this cycle or re-birth. They don't view being reborn as a good thing.

Lot's of people tout that they understand what reincarnation is but many don't.
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