U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 04-03-2015, 04:39 AM
 
2,321 posts, read 2,277,980 times
Reputation: 3845

Advertisements

I've always been interested in this man's talents from an intellectual point of view. I know he uses a bit of Neuro-Linguistic Programming and misdirection, along with talking very, very quickly and watching people extremely closely.

But at around 7:00 in this video, in particular, I can't quite figure out what he said that "told" Matthew Modine what he was describing. I've looked at it a few times and even slowed down the video to try to pick up how he made Matthew think of this certain thing. I think I caught it, but what's your take on it?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C22jO2Sye98


As a comparison, here's another video in which he does the same thing, but it's fairly easy to catch what he's "telling" the man to choose in the supermarket. I just can't figure out the first one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR81VZXVR6U
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-08-2015, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Washington state
5,620 posts, read 3,295,041 times
Reputation: 17374
I love Derren Brown. He's a master at misdirection and reading people and he's knows the psychology of people backwards and forwards. I wish I could see more shows on what he does. The only one thing he did that really mystified me was when he walked a woman over to a window and asked her to command a person in the street below to stop and look up. She did, and the person in the street below stopped and looked up. Absolutely fascinating.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2015, 11:02 PM
 
15,921 posts, read 18,343,597 times
Reputation: 7660
Derren Brown's mentalism secret tricks revealed:

Derren Brown
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-10-2015, 04:18 AM
 
2,321 posts, read 2,277,980 times
Reputation: 3845
Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Derren Brown's mentalism secret tricks revealed:

Derren Brown
Thank you -- I had already read through these (and done as much research on Derren Brown as possible before I posted that first video from 2000). At about 7:00, he tells Matthew Modine to imagine something, and tells him he's "actually going to be telling him" what it is, and Matthew gets it, and I was looking for an answer for that, in particular -- it just drives me crazy!

It's clear Matthew "gets it" in under 1 minute, and I can't quite determine what words he used in particular to make him think of an elephant. And I really don't think it's not his posture, as someone commented (on YouTube). I think I might know, but wanted to get other opinions before I said anything

I think this is the most interesting part of what he does -- the obvious ability (as in the grocery store) to "lead" people to look for a certain something by planting that word in their head.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-10-2015, 09:46 PM
 
11,141 posts, read 8,998,405 times
Reputation: 18278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiashen View Post
It's clear Matthew "gets it" in under 1 minute, and I can't quite determine what words he used in particular to make him think of an elephant. And I really don't think it's not his posture, as someone commented (on YouTube). I think I might know, but wanted to get other opinions before I said anything

I think this is the most interesting part of what he does -- the obvious ability (as in the grocery store) to "lead" people to look for a certain something by planting that word in their head.
Brown uses his left hand emphatically at 7:57 to "gesture" an elephant's trunk, and possibly again at 8:09-8:12. A key word he uses might be "circle" which sounds like "circus" (like how he slurs and emphasizes "finger on" to make it sound like "vinegar" in the first clip). He may plant some other key words too but he talks so fast I couldn't understand him. At one point he seems to say "to form" but he makes it sound more like "perform", so ["circus" + "perform" + trunk gesture] = elephant.
I think the key thing is the distinctive trunk gesture.
edit to add: on replay, I hear Brown say "a normal" a couple of times so fast that it sounds like "animal", another key word.

The word/gesture technique sounds subtle but it can be very powerful in the right circumstance. Both the supermarket guy and Modine were anxious to please. The supermarket man was almost certainly feeling intimidated and nervous with the camera, and he wanted to present a good image. He was listening anxiously and trying to follow closely the confident, persuasive, dominant Brown. He would have been very amenable to any emphatic words, gestures, or touches. Modine was used to cameras so likely not nervous or intimidated by Brown but he was eager to succeed as Brown's ally in the trick so, much like playing an intensive game of Charades, Modine was focusing really hard on the words, gestures, and touches.

Last edited by biscuitmom; 04-10-2015 at 10:30 PM..
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2015, 01:24 AM
 
2,321 posts, read 2,277,980 times
Reputation: 3845
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
Brown uses his left hand emphatically at 7:57 to "gesture" an elephant's trunk, and possibly again at 8:09-8:12. A key word he uses might be "circle" which sounds like "circus" (like how he slurs and emphasizes "finger on" to make it sound like "vinegar" in the first clip). He may plant some other key words too but he talks so fast I couldn't understand him. At one point he seems to say "to form" but he makes it sound more like "perform", so ["circus" + "perform" + trunk gesture] = elephant.
I think the key thing is the distinctive trunk gesture.
edit to add: on replay, I hear Brown say "a normal" a couple of times so fast that it sounds like "animal", another key word.

The word/gesture technique sounds subtle but it can be very powerful in the right circumstance. Both the supermarket guy and Modine were anxious to please. The supermarket man was almost certainly feeling intimidated and nervous with the camera, and he wanted to present a good image. He was listening anxiously and trying to follow closely the confident, persuasive, dominant Brown. He would have been very amenable to any emphatic words, gestures, or touches. Modine was used to cameras so likely not nervous or intimidated by Brown but he was eager to succeed as Brown's ally in the trick so, much like playing an intensive game of Charades, Modine was focusing really hard on the words, gestures, and touches.

Yes, that's what I took from it.

I could tell right off that "vinegar" was the word for the supermarket guy, but it was much harder to figure out the clip from 2000. (The camera is not facing Derren, so we don't have Matthew's vantage point.)

I finally slowed down the video and typed exactly what they said and watched Matthew's body language to see when he relaxed and "knew" what it was, and also noted when he began laughing, smiling, etc.

Here's what I took from it:


Derren Brown: “Alright, Matthew. There’s an envelope for you.” (Puts it in his hands, then put left arm down lower than his torso while sitting, as he turns torso toward him. He forms a casual invasion of personal space by putting Matthew into a “cage” with his arms.)
Matthew’s babbling about it having his name on it, that he has to turn it up, while Derren puts his hand on his shoulder lightly, quickly, but firmly, then across the back of the seat where he’s sitting.

M: “It’s got my name on it.” And holds it up.
D: Takes it out of his hands, says, “It’s got Matthew on it, there’s something in there. There is something sealed in that envelope and for the record, I’ve not shown you what’s inside the envelope you do not know what’s inside the envelope do you. “
M: “No, I do not.”
D: “You don’t. Okay, hang on to that” and puts it back in Matthew’s hands. Puts his hand on Matthew's shoulder very firmly. “It’s a drawing of something. If you look at me I’m actually going to be telling you at a level that you won’t" (D. points at him; his hand is near his chin, then he draws it down, points down, like an elephant trunk) "pick up….consciously" [HE'S DOING THAT "TRUNK THING" WITH HIS HAND, AND HE'S TELLING HIM BY HESITATING SLIGHTLY THAT HE WILL PICK UP CONSCIOUSLY WHAT'S IN IT][/b] "what’s in that so you look at me and take your time and start to form the image now, alright? (Matthew doesn’t nod.)
D: “It’s a drawing, it’s in black ink, I’ve done it in marker.” (Matthew seems to relax, takes the envelope out of one hand and lets that hand rest on his leg while he holds it in the other, and his expression softens as he begins to smile) “and it’s something fairly simple” (waves his hand in front of his face like a fan), “not as simple as a circle, but not as complicated” (waves his hand in front of his face like a fan again, same direction) “as a complicated landscape. Look at me, you getting a picture?”
M: “Um-hmm.”
D: “Can you see something, in your mind? (fan across his face again) can you start to form it?”
(Seems Matthew reacts to the word “marker” because that’s when he starts to smile and relax and seems to want to say right then what it is.)
M: “I don’t want to tell you what it is,” and laughs, holds envelope next to his temple, and looks at the hosts, laughing.
D: “Have you got something?”
M: “Yes, I do.”
D: (removes his arm from Matthew’s shoulder.) “Okay, is it a shape? Is it an abstract shape or it is a … uhhh….” (starts reaching in his pocket)
M: “It’s a figure.”
D: “It’s a figure, it’s a thing, will you draw it for me?” Produces paper. “I won’t judge you on your artistic skills…”
[Crosstalk among hosts, Derren, Matthew about pens, thanks him for saying it’s a nice pen, guy hands him script to bear down on, activity, he draws the elephant].


I think "at a level that" sounds like "elephant." He also may be squeezing Matthew's shoulder slightly at each "key" word.

I didn't get the "to form" as "perform," or "normal," either, but those are good catches, and he does talk so quickly and without punctuation like this that it's almost monotone except when he chooses to hesitate or raise his voice or do very small things that matter that we just don't catch. (I'm out of breath!) But Matthew was definitely "mesmerized!" I'm so glad someone else got it!
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2015, 01:50 AM
 
11,141 posts, read 8,998,405 times
Reputation: 18278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiashen View Post
I think "at a level that" sounds like "elephant." He also may be squeezing Matthew's shoulder slightly at each "key" word.
I kept thinking I was hearing something there that sounded like elephant but I couldn't quite make it out.
I agree that he either squeezed or pressed on Matthew's shoulder every time he gave a clue.
Also what I thought was maybe additional 'trunk' gestures might have been as you say 'fan' ones, which would indicate the ears.
I know a lot of actors and they're lightning quick to pick up on people's gestures and inflections, it's a big part of their ability to get into character. I'm not an actor and if Brown squeezed my shoulder while making elephant gestures, it'd take a good 1/2 hour for me to figure it out.
On the other hand if he stuck a camera and light in my face, gave me a firm push while saying "{word that sounds like "vinegar"}, then told me to go buy something and report back to him, I would have headed straight for the vinegar.

Interestingly when he did the card/shape thing with Judy, I had initially settled on "square" for the second symbol but when he told her to pick a second symbol, I switched to "wavy lines", which of course turned out to be the right one. He did a thing with his hand but I don't think that alone was enough, there must have been a verbal suggestion in there somewhere, one that I picked up subliminally even though I couldn't keep up with his fast patter.

I'm pretty impressed by his talent.

Last edited by biscuitmom; 04-11-2015 at 02:22 AM..
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2015, 02:44 AM
 
2,321 posts, read 2,277,980 times
Reputation: 3845
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
I kept thinking I was hearing something there that sounded like elephant but I couldn't quite make it out.

I agree that he either squeezed or pressed on Matthew's shoulder every time he gave a clue. Also what I thought was maybe additional 'trunk' gestures might have been as you say 'fan' ones, which would indicate the ears.
I never thought of that! I bet it did look that way, because after it was over, Matthew said, "I looked at you, and you reminded me of an elephant!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
I'm not an actor and if Brown squeezed my shoulder while making elephant gestures, it'd take a good 1/2 hour for me to figure it out.
That is LOL funny! Same here. I'd just be sitting there staring at him like a dumb sheep after everyone had gone home, and he'd be saying, "Right, did you have to repeat a grade in school, just what IS your problem, can't you pick up what I'm sending at ALL? ANYTHING?" (though I've heard nothing but tremendously nice things about him).

Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
I'm pretty impressed by his talent.
I've gotten quickly addicted and watch all the shows on YT when I get a chance.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2015, 03:39 AM
 
11,141 posts, read 8,998,405 times
Reputation: 18278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiashen View Post
I'd just be sitting there staring at him like a dumb sheep after everyone had gone home, and he'd be saying, "Right, did you have to repeat a grade in school, just what IS your problem, can't you pick up what I'm sending at ALL? ANYTHING?"
At best I'd be thinking "you're dunking something in water then fanning it dry?, are you washing a shirt or did you burn your hand"? Meanwhile my son the actor would immediately have said ELEPHANT! Many people might have Brown's powers of perception and insight, many others his powers of manipulation, but it's rare to find someone who excels at both.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2015, 07:54 PM
 
2,321 posts, read 2,277,980 times
Reputation: 3845
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
At best I'd be thinking "you're dunking something in water then fanning it dry?, are you washing a shirt or did you burn your hand"? Meanwhile my son the actor would immediately have said ELEPHANT! Many people might have Brown's powers of perception and insight, many others his powers of manipulation, but it's rare to find someone who excels at both.
Very good observation. I am not creative in the least, or if so, in very short supply, and natural actors, who MUST be creative, would likely be able to see what I just would never see. I'm not very suggestible and have always WANTED to be hypnotized, just for fun, but it hasn't worked. I was really let down in college when I was chosen to go onstage but opened my eyes during at one point and thought everyone was applauding for ME, only! I just kind of came out of it, and the hypnotist sent me back to my seat. I later went back to ask him why, and he was busy packing, leaving, and said, "You just wouldn't go under" or something.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top