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Old 05-20-2015, 01:56 AM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,081 posts, read 25,586,695 times
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If you've ever read "People of the Lie", by Scott M. Peck MD, he def believed demonic possession and existence of evil .

Includes case studies of psychotherapy on patients he were unable to diagnose after years of treatment. He also gives accounts of witnessing real exorcisms. Interesting book, I've no reason to question credibility.
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Old 05-20-2015, 02:10 AM
 
4,178 posts, read 3,068,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
Thanks for posting links. Are saying the boy were not possessed, the Priests were frauds or both
The boy was not possessed.

Bowdern and a second priest (can't remember the name) were earnest, but incorrect in believing the boy possessed.

Halloran never quite was convinced, but as he was not the senior priest, he never went so far as to go against the verdict, though he did say that the boy did NOT have super strength, did NOT speak in tongues, and did not do a lot of anything undeniably supernatural.

Again, the boy's own father, brother and childhood friend thought he was just a punk.
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:24 AM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,081 posts, read 25,586,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
The boy was not possessed.

Bowdern and a second priest (can't remember the name) were earnest, but incorrect in believing the boy possessed.

Halloran never quite was convinced, but as he was not the senior priest, he never went so far as to go against the verdict, though he did say that the boy did NOT have super strength, did NOT speak in tongues, and did not do a lot of anything undeniably supernatural.

Again, the boy's own father, brother and childhood friend thought he was just a punk.
My problems with the earlier use of 'fraud', indicating intent of deception involved.
The exorcism on this boy were not for shyt and kicks, IMO, in no way the case. He were simply mistaken in his assessment..

Last edited by virgode; 05-20-2015 at 03:43 AM..
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,168 posts, read 3,609,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
In your post, the one I first responded to, you gave the impression exorcism were something created for movie entertainment. My impression were correct.
I am sorry if I have ever given that impression. I know that there is church doctrine for weird things that are not common belief and things that are even now discredited or forbidden by the Church.

Indulgences where you would pay to have sins absolved has been reformed, they used to sell the Pope's poop which they no longer do (to my knowledge) and Papal Infallibility.

Do you also believe in Papal Infallibility? Do you just cherry pick what you want to believe?
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Maine
19,190 posts, read 22,874,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
I am sorry if I have ever given that impression. I know that there is church doctrine for weird things that are not common belief and things that are even now discredited or forbidden by the Church.
Anyone interested in actually exorcisms ought to check out THE RITE: The Making of a Modern Exorcist, by Matt Baglio.

The Church does indeed still practice exorcism, but it does not see demons everywhere in every siutaiton. It is actually REALLY hard for the Church to sanction an exorcism, and before it is allowed, the subject has to be evaluated not only by priests, but by doctors, psychologists, etc. The overwhelming majority of people who ask for an exorcism are diagnosed with mental illness, substance abuse problems, trauma, etc. and are referred to doctors and counselors for proper treatment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
Indulgences where you would pay to have sins absolved has been reformed,
Indulgences are still Catholic doctrine, but I would bet cold cash that they aren't what most people think they are. This is one of those Catholic doctrines that is most often misunderstood. It isn't a "Get out of Hell" free card.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
they used to sell the Pope's poop which they no longer do (to my knowledge)
Pope poop? Are you serious? That's a new one. Is that for real, or is that courtesy of Jack Chick? Got a source? I'd love to read about that, though I sure hope there aren't pictures.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
Papal Infallibility.
Again, still an official doctrine of the Church, and probably not what you think it is. This is another one of those things that non-Catholics think they understand but most don't.
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,168 posts, read 3,609,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Anyone interested in actually exorcisms ought to check out THE RITE: The Making of a Modern Exorcist, by Matt Baglio.

The Church does indeed still practice exorcism, but it does not see demons everywhere in every siutaiton. It is actually REALLY hard for the Church to sanction an exorcism, and before it is allowed, the subject has to be evaluated not only by priests, but by doctors, psychologists, etc. The overwhelming majority of people who ask for an exorcism are diagnosed with mental illness, substance abuse problems, trauma, etc. and are referred to doctors and counselors for proper treatment.




Indulgences are still Catholic doctrine, but I would bet cold cash that they aren't what most people think they are. This is one of those Catholic doctrines that is most often misunderstood. It isn't a "Get out of Hell" free card.




Pope poop? Are you serious? That's a new one. Is that for real, or is that courtesy of Jack Chick? Got a source? I'd love to read about that, though I sure hope there aren't pictures.




Again, still an official doctrine of the Church, and probably not what you think it is. This is another one of those things that non-Catholics think they understand but most don't.
I was raised, and still am a non-practicing Catholic. Indulgences today are not what they were in the middle ages, which in fact is more in line with what I was thinking.
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Old 05-20-2015, 08:58 AM
 
4,178 posts, read 3,068,979 times
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Originally Posted by virgode View Post
My problems with the earlier use of 'fraud', indicating intent of deception involved.
The exorcism on this boy were not for shyt and kicks, IMO, in no way the case. He were simply mistaken in his assessment..
The boy committed a fraud. Not the priests.

My wording was entirely correct.
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Old 05-20-2015, 11:22 AM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,081 posts, read 25,586,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
The boy committed a fraud. Not the priests.

My wording was entirely correct.
WWasn't specific...thanks for clarifying.
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Old 05-20-2015, 11:25 AM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,081 posts, read 25,586,695 times
Reputation: 18077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
I am sorry if I have ever given that impression. I know that there is church doctrine for weird things that are not common belief and things that are even now discredited or forbidden by the Church.

Indulgences where you would pay to have sins absolved has been reformed, they used to sell the Pope's poop which they no longer do (to my knowledge) and Papal Infallibility.

Do you also believe in Papal Infallibility? Do you just cherry pick what you want to believe?
No, but you do.
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Old 05-20-2015, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,168 posts, read 3,609,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
No, but you do.
OH do I? Prove to me that this boy was possessed.
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