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Old 09-01-2015, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Here is a section of that image from the top left corner showing what I think is moss-like plants.
If you look on the right of the full image, you'll see a couple of places where there are ridges of harder material that have emerged due to erosion. Usually this happens on earth when you have cracks fill with a harder substance, so the filled cracks remain when the softer stuff erodes away. I suspect that's what you're seeing that looks like branching plants. See e.g.:

Pseudofossils
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Old 09-01-2015, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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What nutrients exist on Mars that would feed any life forms? The absence of liquids would seem to be an issue. Can any lifeforms on earth exist with liquids?
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Old 09-01-2015, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Yust a feeling, but I believe that we will fond signs of past or present life forms on mars. Maybe not what we know as life. There are possibilities of non-carbon based life, some candidates being sulfer or silicon based life.

We have come close to having sulfer based life evolve here on earth.

Life as We Didn't Know It - NASA Science

We do know Mars has had active volcanoes. There is also a possibility some may still be active

Mars Volcanoes Possibly Still Active, Pictures Show

It is still too early for us to say there is no life on Mars and a high possibility there was life in the past.

From our own deep see volcan vent explorations we know if you have a volcano, life can exist.
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Old 09-01-2015, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
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Following is the evidence I find most suggestive and calling for further exploration ... There's evidence of water and water ice just beneath the surface that occasionally emerges in short-lived flows:

Water on Mars: Exploration & Evidence

Note it's estimated that 2% of Martian soil is water/ice.

Spirit photographed places where the rover disturbed the surface soil, which rolled back held together by ... something (an active or fossil bacterial mat has been suggested by some as an explanation). The Mars Phoenix Lander definitely found water ice at its landing location near the North Pole:

NASA - NASA Spacecraft Confirms Martian Water, Mission Extended

It also might have found evidence of liquid water that splashed up onto the craft at landing:

Phoenix Mars Lander Found Liquid Water, Some Scientists Think

Also, some have also suggested that the Viking lander experiment actually did discover evidence of life on Mars back in the 1970s:

http://earthsky.org/space/did-the-vi...n-mars-in-1976

Finally, there's the ambiguous evidence regarding seasonal methane production on Mars:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/17/sc...mars.html?_r=0

Here's the photo showing the possible bacterial mat:

http://www.space.com/229-nasa-scient...-microbes.html

Last edited by Vasily; 09-01-2015 at 06:09 PM..
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Old 09-01-2015, 07:20 PM
 
Location: PRC
4,725 posts, read 4,155,566 times
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Old Guard
Quote:
Would it be rude to ask your education level, your level of experience with flora and fauna, your access to Mars and anything else pertinent to making a determination of whether there is life on Mars or not?
Yes, it would.

Quote:
Also I asked some question earlier about some of the "absolute" comments you had made. Could you address those so that we can understand more.
More of what? What is it you dont understand?

Quote:
"They" say a lot of things. Who is this "They"? Do you have any reputable sources?
You gave a link to NASA, that will tell who 'they' are. There are many tentacles to a government. Besides it is not relevent to the discussion.


Quote:
Yes, they do these things because they are seeking knowledge. They share them because they are not hiding anything.
Ha ha. Thats a joke, right? Where does the influence of government stop and real science begin?


I said: On a lifeless planet, (or one which has not seen life for millions of years) none of these things should be there.
Quote:
Please elaborate. Please be specific.
Tell me an asteroid, moon or other planetry body which has long pointy things on it which fork in the middle?


Quote:
There is no evidence that NASA is trying to keep this from anyone,
Quite a joker aren't we? Scientists are supposed to investigate, remember?

Quote:
Please explain why anyone would hide the existence of plant life on Mars? Most people would go "Interesting" and forget about it within two weeks. It really only matters to scientists and people who may be planning missions to Mars. I have not reason why it matters so much to you.
NO ! That is the arrogant attitude of scientists and government. This is a discussion forum, Thats why it matters to me. It should matter to everyone too if the government are ignoring things which will have great impact on our life. Aliens or Life on Mars is a huge issue for every human.

Vasily
Quote:
If you look on the right of the full image, you'll see a couple of places where there are ridges of harder material that have emerged due to erosion.
Erosion? Really? I feel that is a stretch of the imagination to explain it that way.

So, how do you understand erosion work on Mars? My understanding is that there is little erosion due to the dry thin atmosphere and weak wind. There is some embrittlement due to radiation breakdown but I do not see much evidence of recent erosion in the other images.

303Guy
One of the MERs found subsurface ice a few years ago, so that would suggest there is liquid available.


If it is not plant life, what is showing in this image I posted?
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Old 09-01-2015, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Vasily
Erosion? Really? I feel that is a stretch of the imagination to explain it that way.

So, how do you understand erosion work on Mars? My understanding is that there is little erosion due to the dry thin atmosphere and weak wind. There is some embrittlement due to radiation breakdown but I do not see much evidence of recent erosion in the other images.
Your understanding is incorrect. Mars has huge dust storms that sometimes blanket a whole hemisphere. Here's an article on one that raised concerns about the rovers on Mars:

NASA Tracks Big Dust Storm on Mars

One of the challenges faced by the rovers on Mars is the deposition of dust on the surface of the solar cells. There are huge numbers of dust devils on Mars; here's a photo of one. Dust devils have in fact cleaned dust from the solar panels of the rovers.

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/1...l_mars_web.jpg

Quoting from the following article: "Wind streaks are perhaps the most striking and widespread aeolian feature on Mars. Some have been observed to undergo changes in short amounts of time, indicating that the aeolian erosion and/or deposition that formed them is presently active."

Winds of Mars: Aeolian Activity and Landforms

And quoting the following article: "... these huge dust pipes must be a large factor in transporting dust and could be responsible for eroding landforms"

Dust Devil, The Movie - Astrobiology Magazine

Regarding your question about what the "moss" is in the picture you posted, eroded mineral veins can look like a lot of things. Here's another photo of mineral veins resembling biological forms from the Red Planet:

http://stgist.com/wp-content/uploads...eral-veins.jpg

Last edited by Vasily; 09-01-2015 at 08:32 PM..
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Old 09-01-2015, 08:54 PM
 
Location: PRC
4,725 posts, read 4,155,566 times
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Vasily
I COMPLETELY agree with you.

HOWEVER, there is one small point I would like to make.

There are NO piles of blueberries in the lee of rocks.

As you know, these are supposed to be iron-rich concretions which have eroded out of sedimentary rock and are between 0-10mm in size. Small enough for these dust devils and sand storms to move, yet there is no visual evidence from all the years the MERs have been on Mars.

How do you account for that?
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Old 09-02-2015, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,170 posts, read 3,665,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Old Guard
Yes, it would.
Why would it? You are questioning people who have worked most of their professional lives on this, who have degrees, who speak on the subject and some of who teach at the college level, people who design the tests and examine more than just pictures.

If you are going to question those people, and even call them liars, why would you not tell us what experience and knowledge you bring to the table? I think it is a fair question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
More of what? What is it you dont understand?
Example, you said:

Quote:
There are also root-like and stick and branch-like structures found in the images which would give credence to a belief that there are larger plants around.

On a lifeless planet, (or one which has not seen life for millions of years) none of these things should be there.
Please elaborate on why none of these things should be there. Please BE SPECIFIC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
You gave a link to NASA, that will tell who 'they' are. There are many tentacles to a government. Besides it is not relevent to the discussion.
I gave a link to NASA to refute your statement that "they" say there is no life on Mars. That site clearly states that they are searching for life on Mars. This reminds me though. You stated that "they" say there is not life on Mars, I will ask you a second time for a source.

Also I am not sure what evidence you have that NASA is hiding knowledge of life on Mars, yet providing pictures that a knowledgeable person such as yourself could use to prove there IS life on Mars. Are they that stupid? If they are perhaps you could build a Mars Rover in your back yard and send it to Mars to PROVE they are lying?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Ha ha. Thats a joke, right? Where does the influence of government stop and real science begin?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
I said: On a lifeless planet, (or one which has not seen life for millions of years) none of these things should be there.
Tell me an asteroid, moon or other planetry body which has long pointy things on it which fork in the middle?
Our Earth and moon has these. Many moons, planets and asteroids will have these. These are natural geologic formations. Perhaps you can explain WHY they are only possible with plant life?

This is on our planet:




Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Quite a joker aren't we? Scientists are supposed to investigate, remember?
I am not sure what what you think is funny about what I said. What proof do you have that NASA is trying to hide life on Mars?

Dude, I am curious, I would love to hear that there is life on Mars. I love to learn. So teach me....please!
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Old 09-02-2015, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,941 posts, read 4,594,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Vasily
I COMPLETELY agree with you.

HOWEVER, there is one small point I would like to make.

There are NO piles of blueberries in the lee of rocks.

As you know, these are supposed to be iron-rich concretions which have eroded out of sedimentary rock and are between 0-10mm in size. Small enough for these dust devils and sand storms to move, yet there is no visual evidence from all the years the MERs have been on Mars.

How do you account for that?
I haven't seen the evidence that blueberries aren't found on the leeward side of rocks. However, if they're eroded out of sedimentary rocks by wind action over the millenia you'd expect them to collect on the windward side rather than the leeward side. Windblown sand or snow piles up on the windward side of obstructions for example.

Also, it's not 100% certain that they are concretions grown in water -- another hypothesis (resuscitated recently) is that they are the result of a meteorite impact or volcanic eruption. We probably won't know for sure until there's a sample return or a geologist takes a look at them up close.
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Old 09-02-2015, 08:08 AM
 
Location: PRC
4,725 posts, read 4,155,566 times
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Here is a 'blueberry stalk It is plain to see at the bottom left corner. There is also a 'living stone' kind of spherule which might be a fungi rather than a concretion. I will leave you to decide.




Now do you all think there is plant life on Mars?
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