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Old 08-30-2015, 01:06 AM
 
Location: PRC
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We all have beliefs which are close to our hearts, God, ghosts, aliens, Bigfoot, Mothman, and mine is that there is plant life on Mars.

I have managed to convince myself of this by looking at photographs from Spirit and Opportunity, but how do I convince anyone else where there is just photographic evidence?

Of course, the scientists officially say there is no life on Mars but I would like to disagree with them.

The trouble with this belief is that I have no scientific training. No scientific training means that people will ask "why should we believe you over credible scientists from NASA and other government agencies?" All I can say is there IS evidence in the photographs.

It also assumes there is a huge conspiracy to cover up so it is even more difficult to convince people or offer any evidence which will be viewed objectively. If you know that science tells you that there is no life on Mars, you are unlikely to change that viewpoint very easily.

Do I get dismissed as a crank and a crackpot? Probably.

The other thing which is related is where there is plant life, there may also be other life forms which use the plant life for their food. That opens a whole new can of worms into the debate.

If you are religious then I would argue there is very little (if any) concrete evidence for God. Yet millions believe in God.
So...What would you need to convince you there was plant life on Mars?
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Old 08-30-2015, 06:45 AM
 
2,321 posts, read 2,287,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Of course, the scientists officially say there is no life on Mars but I would like to disagree with them.
It could well be that they just don't know 100% everything about Mars. I'd say that's highly likely.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Do I get dismissed as a crank and a crackpot? Probably.
Not here. You seem to have a strong, inner belief about this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
So...What would you need to convince you there was plant life on Mars?
Proof of plant life on Mars.

(That is not meant to be sarcastic; it's just one of many things that, if they could prove 100%, would make me believe it. Scientists don't know everything. How could they? They're just human.)
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Old 08-30-2015, 11:37 AM
 
Location: out standing in my field
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I'd need to see plants that, you know, came from Mars.
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Old 08-30-2015, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn,NY
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The questions is what would define Alien plants? Doubtful it would look like exotic earth plants.

There are mountains and caverns on Mars. We have no idea what could be there, even with a manned mission. Life may exist below the surface.
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Old 08-30-2015, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,170 posts, read 3,632,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Of course, the scientists officially say there is no life on Mars but I would like to disagree with them.
Where do they say this? They say they have FOUND no life on Mars. There is a huge difference in that and what you say they say. I think the beginning step would be to look at what they have found, what they are looking for and what has actually been said. If you think they are lying then you should think to yourself about why they would bother. I personally think that space programs have been too open with their findings. I do not think that the US should be sharing with Russia or China for instance.
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Old 08-30-2015, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Unicellular could be abundant. A few samples of soil does not rule out the possibility. It does not even rule out the possibility of multi-cell vascular plants.

The only thing we can probably rule out is the existence of 200 mile tall redwood trees growing on Mars.
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Old 08-30-2015, 10:27 PM
 
Location: PRC
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OldGuard - they are saying this all the time, that there is no current life on Mars, but there may have been in the dim and distant past. They also say that the conditions now could not support life. They do not seem to qualify their statements with "life as we know it" or anything like that. You can split hairs by saying they have "not found any life", but personally I reckon they have.

I feel that there may be lichens and fungi and that SOME of the millions of 'blueberries' they have photographed on the ground may be round puffball-like fungi fruiting bodies with spores in them. I also have found images of small moss-like plants in images too.

I am sure I am not the only person who has seen these things and I am absolutely positive that NASA have seen them too as they take the Micro-imager photos and 'stack' them to give a greater depth of field and allow them to be seen in greater detail. They also often make 3-D photos from right/left camera images so they can see perspective.

There are also root-like and stick and branch-like structures found in the images which would give credence to a belief that there are larger plants around.

On a lifeless planet, (or one which has not seen life for millions of years) none of these things should be there.

As for larger plants, there were images from the satellite which orbits Mars which showed an area covered with what could be tree-like shapes. Round circular shapes which could be a forest of sorts. Of course, the tree-like plants could be like our ancient fern trees which were covering our planet in prehistoric times, but in any case they would have to process the atmosphere in different ways if it is composed of different gases.

This is mostly speculation as there is no independent proof and there never will be. The first humans on Mars are likely to be NASA personnel who will tow the line in order to keep their pensions going to their family on Earth etc.

100% proof is never likely to be possible with space travel and so all that we will get is the images and data which maybe sanitised by the ones who supply it.

Whether you believe what they show us is a personal choice but the government has to maintain order and rules society with more and more control these days. It has also been found to lie when it suits them and to quote National Security when asked awkward questions.
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Old 08-31-2015, 02:16 AM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
10,234 posts, read 14,782,138 times
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It would not surprise me at all to hear that plants on Mars have been discovered. But they would be different plants of different molecular makeup, and any life-forms that they may nurture are likely very limited and also of different molecular makeup.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,170 posts, read 3,632,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
OldGuard - they are saying this all the time, that there is no current life on Mars, but there may have been in the dim and distant past.
"They" say a lot of things. Who is this "They"? Do you have any reputable sources?

Here is a link to NASA:

http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/review/dr...e-on-mars.html

Quote:
In the meantime, NASA is working hard now to discover whether there is life on Mars. The United States and other countries have been sending spacecraft to orbit or land there since the 1960s, and each mission teaches us more about this fascinating planet. We have learned that even though Mars is more similar to Earth than anywhere else in the solar system, and therefore is a good place to look for life, it is still different from Earth in many ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
They also say that the conditions now could not support life. They do not seem to qualify their statements with "life as we know it" or anything like that. You can split hairs by saying they have "not found any life", but personally I reckon they have.
Those magical "They"'s again. You can assume "They" have but there is nothing to base this on. I really see no reason to hide it as the first scientist to find life on another planet would be famous and his name would be known for generations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
I feel that there may be lichens and fungi and that SOME of the millions of 'blueberries' they have photographed on the ground may be round puffball-like fungi fruiting bodies with spores in them. I also have found images of small moss-like plants in images too.
They are just images. You can make a lot of assumptions from images but luckily we have, and have had, Rovers that can take samples and send back information. There has been nothing found as of this date. But I do feel that there may be something we are not familiar with that is alive but it is so different than what we know about that it was overlooked. Regardless I do not think it will be intelligent life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
I am sure I am not the only person who has seen these things and I am absolutely positive that NASA have seen them too as they take the Micro-imager photos and 'stack' them to give a greater depth of field and allow them to be seen in greater detail. They also often make 3-D photos from right/left camera images so they can see perspective.
Yes, they do these things because they are seeking knowledge. They share them because they are not hiding anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
There are also root-like and stick and branch-like structures found in the images which would give credence to a belief that there are larger plants around.
You are making a lot of assumptions. Just because it looks like branches and roots does not mean that it is branches and roots. You are free to believe what you wish but by believing these are branches and roots without further proof it betrays that you are not seeking the truth. You ahve reached a conclusion and are looking for proof to support this conclusion and exclude all information that does not support it. This is not the scientific method.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
On a lifeless planet, (or one which has not seen life for millions of years) none of these things should be there.
Please elaborate. Please be specific.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
As for larger plants, there were images from the satellite which orbits Mars which showed an area covered with what could be tree-like shapes. Round circular shapes which could be a forest of sorts. Of course, the tree-like plants could be like our ancient fern trees which were covering our planet in prehistoric times, but in any case they would have to process the atmosphere in different ways if it is composed of different gases.
Sure it could show this. But that does not mean it does show this and there is no further proof to substantiate this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
This is mostly speculation as there is no independent proof and there never will be.
What do you mean there will be no independent proof? The Soviet Union tried to send some probes to Mars but they failed, the European Space Agency sent a rover, but it failed.

I am sure there will be other national attempts and I have no reason to doubt there will be private attempts withing the next 20 years as corporations look to monetize.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
The first humans on Mars are likely to be NASA personnel who will tow the line in order to keep their pensions going to their family on Earth etc.
There is no evidence that NASA is trying to keep this from anyone, they are the ones sending you those pretty pictures that you are making a lot of uneducated assumptions about BTW, or that they care either way. There is no reason to believe that NASA could even take an astronauts pension if they revealed life on Mars. If the attempted the lawsuit would result in an astronomical loss of monies for NASA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
100% proof is never likely to be possible with space travel and so all that we will get is the images and data which maybe sanitised by the ones who supply it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Whether you believe what they show us is a personal choice but the government has to maintain order and rules society with more and more control these days. It has also been found to lie when it suits them and to quote National Security when asked awkward questions.
Please explain why anyone would hide the existence of plant life on Mars? Most people would go "Interesting" and forget about it within two weeks. It really only matters to scientists and people who may be planning missions to Mars. I have not reason why it matters so much to you.
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,170 posts, read 3,632,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesmama View Post
It would not surprise me at all to hear that plants on Mars have been discovered. But they would be different plants of different molecular makeup, and any life-forms that they may nurture are likely very limited and also of different molecular makeup.
Maybe, maybe not. Comets could distribute the basic building blocks of life across the galaxy:

How an Exploding Comet Might Have Forged Life on Earth - The New Yorker
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