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Old 01-26-2016, 12:44 PM
 
3,299 posts, read 2,082,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
The Abrahamic religions will have little problem digesting such knowledge.

Pope's Astronomer Guy Consolmagno Says 'Aliens Exist'
Offering something written by one Catholic to cover not only all of Christianity, but Judaism and Islam as well, is not very convincing. And I note amusingly that your article states the Pope would "not deny baptism" to the aliens if/when they show up. As if he believes an alien race would A) be in need of it and B) would readily and willingly accept human, Catholic religion instead of the other way around.

My apologies if I offended, but based on a few things you've written, I get the impression you haven't actually done much reading on the dialogue between religion and science. You seem to be of the Bill Maher / Richard Dawkins stripe who likes the straw men. If that is a misconception on my part, I apologize.


Your apology is accepted.

There has been so such scenario of proven extraterrestrial contact in history. But fine. If you can find an Aztec priest, I concede the point that he might possibly worship aliens. In fact, according to that wild-haired guy on the history channel, the Aztecs probably did worship aliens.


The point here is that Aztec priests didn't last long after meeting Spanish priests.

Well, Xenu will have hardly been the first to tell that to the Church. The Church and the Jews are still here. Where is Caesar?

Xenu would certainly be the first alien to do so, right?
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Old 01-26-2016, 12:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
And let me ask you: Why are you so convinced aliens would say any such thing? Your "what if?" is just a what if.
For some reason, my speculating in a speculative thread appears troubling to you. Why?
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Old 01-26-2016, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch33 View Post
Offering something written by one Catholic to cover not only all of Christianity, but Judaism and Islam as well, is not very convincing.
I gave you an easy one because I'm not going to do all your homework for you. There are lots of good books out there about the dialogue between faith and science, but if you'd like to do some reading or even watch some videos, check out Guy Consulmagno's book, maybe Robert Spitzer, Francis S. Collins, etc.

The so-called Abrahamic religions have a long and proud history of science and scholarship, as do the Hindus. Just off the top of my head you've got Gregor Mendel (Catholic monk and founder of our understanding of genetics), Georges Lemaitre (Catholic priest and founder of the Big Bang Theory), and hundreds of years of medieval scholarship and science in both Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch33 View Post
Offering something written by one Catholic to cover not only all of And I note amusingly that your article states the Pope would "not deny baptism" to the aliens if/when they show up. As if he believes an alien race would A) be in need of it and B) would readily and willingly accept human, Catholic religion instead of the other way around.
I hope you caught on to the fact that the article was rather tongue in cheek. Certainly not deep theology.

But I am reminded of a 4th century bishop who was once asked if the Church would baptize a satyr. His response was correct and to the point, "Show me a satyr, then we'll talk."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch33 View Post
The point here is that Aztec priests didn't last long after meeting Spanish priests.
For reasons that (hopefully) won't occur should there ever be human / extraterrestrial contact.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch33 View Post
Xenu would certainly be the first alien to do so, right?
Well that depends on who you ask.

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Old 01-26-2016, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch33 View Post
For some reason, my speculating in a speculative thread appears troubling to you. Why?
Because your assertion has no basis. "What happens if aliens are atheists?" is perfectly acceptable speculation. But so is, "What happens if aliens are snow cones?" One assertion is as valid as the other.
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Old 01-26-2016, 01:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Because your assertion has no basis. "What happens if aliens are atheists?" is perfectly acceptable speculation. But so is, "What happens if aliens are snow cones?" One assertion is as valid as the other.
Let's see now. MY 'assertion' has "no basis", then you offer two other 'assertions' that you consider as being perfectly acceptable. What's your criteria? Again, why do you have problems with my speculating here in this speculative thread? It's as if you're trying to quash the discussion.
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Old 01-26-2016, 01:24 PM
 
3,299 posts, read 2,082,892 times
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Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I gave you an easy one because I'm not going to do all your homework for you.
"Go look it up" isn't a very good defense of your own broad assertion.

The so-called Abrahamic religions have a long and proud history of science and scholarship, as do the Hindus. Just off the top of my head you've got Gregor Mendel (Catholic monk and founder of our understanding of genetics), Georges Lemaitre (Catholic priest and founder of the Big Bang Theory), and hundreds of years of medieval scholarship and science in both Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism.

That long history is duly noted; however I don't share your belief it's proof in itself that all Abrahamic religions will survive intact after humans encounter aliens having superior technology and differing religious beliefs.

For reasons that (hopefully) won't occur should there ever be human / extraterrestrial contact.

The precedent, however, of what happens whenever an 'inferior' culture meets a 'superior' one (at least in human experience) is quite consistent; and IMO should be viewed as an indicator.
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Old 01-26-2016, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
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To me, this argument is next only to the existence of a god. No one has any irrefutable evidence, and likely never will. The distances are simple too far away for the human capability.

My suggestion is stop going into space looking for them. The suggestion is look for them via technology, focusing our energy on quadrants of our neighborhood in the galaxy. Universe? Too big of a discussion and undertaking with no odds of reward. So, go with what we know and focus our technology on finding the needle in the haystack.
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Old 01-26-2016, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch33 View Post
"Go look it up" isn't a very good defense of your own broad assertion.
Unfortunately, knowledge doesn't come in soundbytes, and if you're talking about the history of science and religion and the current dialogue between the two, you're talking about a very interesting very complicated subject that I simply can't explain to you in 3 or 4 sentences. If you really want to learn something and not just score points in an argument, you're going to have to some homework on your own. If you'd like a good jumping off point, just to get your brain primed, watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9zRK-OHgfw .

If nothing else, it will point out to you that not all religious people just can't give up the tooth fairy.

When you make statements like: "Well, what major religions here on earth could readily assimilate that knowledge? To most, we humans are the chosen favorites in a universe overseen by gods who are human in form & mannerisms."

I don't mean to sound harsh, but that is a very juvenile statement about the world's major religions. It isn't even true about the world's minor religions. It isn't just a straw man. It's a straw man in a funny hat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch33 View Post
I don't share your belief it's proof in itself that all Abrahamic religions will survive intact after humans encounter aliens having superior technology and differing religious beliefs.
There is no proof. When we're seriously discussing what the Pope would say to alien, we aren't talking about faith and science. We're talking about faith and science fiction.

If you want proof, show me proof of aliens, then we'll talk again.
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Old 01-26-2016, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Southern California
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Wait, so you're tell me Alf is dead???


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Old 01-26-2016, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
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Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, the mainline (liberal) Protestant denominations, and moderate moslems will not have any problem with alien contact. Fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist moslems would treat the contact the same way they treated Darwinism: call it demonic, deny, and come up with some explanation that keeps their literalist theology intact. Not only do you have creationist beliefs running rampant in these groups, but there are plenty of flat earthers among fundamentalists of both camps. Which means: people will do what they can to deal with cognitive dissonance so they can retain their beliefs, no matter how rational. Whether these sects could survive extraterrestrial contact long term is doubtful.

Fr. Romanides, Greek Orthodox priest wrote: "...Thus, the existence of intelligent life on another planet behind or way ahead of us in intellectual and spiritual attainment will change little in the traditional beliefs of Orthodox Christianity." I'm Orthodox, and I agree their discovery would pose no threat to our theology. That's not what Orthodoxy is about. Neither would the discovery that they're atheists, or believe something closer to Hinduism or Buddhism than Christianity, or if they believe in the great Goddess Goomba who has tentacles and lives on the mountain Zornax on the planet Whattaburger.

Here's something on the Roman Catholic beliefs surrounding alien life:

Catholic.net - Alien Life Out There

Here's an article on Islam and extraterrestrials:

Islam & Science » Islam and Extraterrestrial Life

Seriously, anyone who is an atheist and thinks/hopes that contact with ET would put the final nail in the coffin of the Abrahamic religions has another think coming.
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