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Old 07-12-2016, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,870 posts, read 4,557,472 times
Reputation: 11213

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelinLow View Post
Science is about proof. Religion is about faith. It all comes down to that, and yet they overlap. I examine, explore, identify, and embrace the biological and physical levels of existence as a scientist. I acknowledge, celebrate, and stand in awe of the beauty and intricacy of their design as a believer in the higher power that created them and infuses them with a life force that is mystery.
Someone wrote here:

Quote:
you have to either take your everlasting life seriously or you take your profession seriously
Unfortunately, by this criterion, your position cannot be justified so you must be mistaken. You have to choose one or the other.
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Old 07-13-2016, 02:05 AM
 
Location: PRC
4,644 posts, read 4,100,578 times
Reputation: 4141
Quote:
It all comes down to that, and yet they overlap. I examine, explore, identify, and embrace the biological and physical levels of existence as a scientist. I acknowledge, celebrate, and stand in awe of the beauty and intricacy of their design as a believer in the higher power that created them and infuses them with a life force that is mystery.
Yet at every moment we are moving swiftly towards a point where life will be created in the test tube, where life already is being destroyed by scientists work and experimentation. Monsters are being created and one species is being modified and changed to have the shape, colour characteristics, and attributes of another. Thats all peachy.

Regardless of religion, morally do we think this is how we should be running our world?

...and now from reading ssome of the posts on this thread it seems there is no conflict of interest in those aspects of a scientists work and his religious beliefs, so thats OK then. We are obviously in good hands.
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Old 07-13-2016, 06:30 AM
 
Location: Maine
19,357 posts, read 23,026,591 times
Reputation: 23782
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Yet at every moment we are moving swiftly towards a point where life will be created in the test tube
We've been doing that for decades.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
where life already is being destroyed by scientists work and experimentation.
And Roe v. Wade made that legal. Be careful, ocpaul. You're starting to make sense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Regardless of religion, morally do we think this is how we should be running our world?
I can only speak for myself. And I answer, "No."


Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
...and now from reading ssome of the posts on this thread it seems there is no conflict of interest in those aspects of a scientists work and his religious beliefs, so thats OK then. We are obviously in good hands.
No. I have said there is no inherent conflict between Religion and Science or between Faith and Reason when they are used correctly.

That is NOT a carte blanche endorsement of every religious or scientific practice. St. Francis and Rasputin were both very religious. One is a saint, the other a monster. Einstein and Mengele were both scientists. One is rightly revered as a hero, the other rightly damned as a monster.
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Old 07-13-2016, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,170 posts, read 3,647,867 times
Reputation: 6321
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Yet at every moment we are moving swiftly towards a point where life will be created in the test tube, where life already is being destroyed by scientists work and experimentation. .
I m not sure what you are saying here? Do you have a problem with this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Monsters are being created and one species is being modified and changed to have the shape, colour characteristics, and attributes of another. Thats all peachy..
Monsters? Specifics please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Regardless of religion, morally do we think this is how we should be running our world? .
Wait? What? Morals? Whose morals? I thought the point of getting rid of religion was to destroy the sense of what is right and wrong and justify being selfish? I may be wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
...and now from reading ssome of the posts on this thread it seems there is no conflict of interest in those aspects of a scientists work and his religious beliefs, so thats OK then. We are obviously in good hands.
You make a lot of absolutes that you never bother to back up. But as you say "silence is an admittance of being wrong".


Let me make a few points to counter your above absolute statement:

  • Not all scientists are religious.
  • Not all religions are the same.
  • Not all members of a religion are the same and believe absolutely the same things at the same times.
  • There of course may be conflicts between a mans religion and science, just as there may be conflicts between wants and morals or family and the greater good and family and the law. People are flawed and full of inner conflicts and opposing beliefs.
You seem to have an agenda and think that it is right. When questions are asked that conflict with that you ignore them or try to reframe them.
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Old 07-13-2016, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Maine
19,357 posts, read 23,026,591 times
Reputation: 23782
A good article for anyone struggling to understand how Faith and Reason are not in opposition:

Rational Faith: More working hypothesis than logical proof
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Old 07-13-2016, 10:15 PM
 
Location: PRC
4,644 posts, read 4,100,578 times
Reputation: 4141
Quote:
No. I have said there is no inherent conflict between Religion and Science or between Faith and Reason when they are used correctly.
And how often do you think scientists are going to say no to someone who pays their wages - such as the government or a university which is doing research which just might be used by the military to kill millions of people in a horrible way? It really does not justify it if these people are enemies of one country or another.

Now, can you see how there is lots of wiggle-room in your statement "when they are used correctly". Yes, of course we would all like to live in a world where there is no conflict of interest between belief and employer, but it will never happen. There will always be those who want to develop weapons or drugs with detrimental side effects or chemicals which make us more dosile and obedient or have an effect on our mental processes, or make one species into another species with bells on it.

I do not have a problem with people believing, but I do have a problem with them believing in a way which ignores the reality of the world around them.
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Old 07-14-2016, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,170 posts, read 3,647,867 times
Reputation: 6321
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
And how often do you think scientists are going to say no to someone who pays their wages - such as the government or a university which is doing research which just might be used by the military to kill millions of people in a horrible way? It really does not justify it if these people are enemies of one country or another.
Might be? Like the airplane? I believe a fair number of scientists have, and will, not work on projects that they believe are likely to be used in a way they do not agree with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Now, can you see how there is lots of wiggle-room in your statement "when they are used correctly". Yes, of course we would all like to live in a world where there is no conflict of interest between belief and employer, but it will never happen.
But this is not just a problem with the only people of belief you recognize, Christians, this is a problem that people of all faiths and even those of no faith have to endure.

And this is not just related to scientists. There are lots of jobs out there where people can become conflicted such as working for a big bank or selling unhealthy foods for example. I would say a large portion of people are conflicted between their jobs and their personal beliefs some time over their career.

Your banal crusade against science says more about you than it does about scientists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
There will always be those who want to develop weapons or drugs with detrimental side effects or chemicals which make us more dosile and obedient or have an effect on our mental processes, or make one species into another species with bells on it.
What is wrong with this? People have been changing the world in which we live for tens of thousands of years and domesticating animals for thousands of years. What specifically is wrong with this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
I do not have a problem with people believing, but I do have a problem with them believing in a way which ignores the reality of the world around them.
You mean like you?
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Old 07-14-2016, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,870 posts, read 4,557,472 times
Reputation: 11213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
I do not have a problem with people believing, but I do have a problem with them believing in a way which ignores the reality of the world around them.
Oh, boy.
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Old 07-15-2016, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,170 posts, read 3,647,867 times
Reputation: 6321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
Oh, boy.
I think the correct statement would be:

"I do not have a problem with people believing, but I do have a problem with them believing in a way which ignores my belief of the world around them."

Which applies to almost everyone anyway.
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Old 07-15-2016, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,870 posts, read 4,557,472 times
Reputation: 11213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
I think the correct statement would be:

"I do not have a problem with people believing, but I do have a problem with them believing in a way which ignores my belief of the world around them."

Which applies to almost everyone anyway.
"And if they do, I'll get combative and start insulting them."
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