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[Mod cut.] I dont think anyone is debating whether the board itself is anything but physical. I think what they are trying to say, is that the board and other similar tools bring concentration and intent together which might(yes might) allow non-physical energies to draw near and influence (in this case in a negative way) the physical living.
It all depends whether you believe in any of that stuff - from religion to total woo. If you dont, then go ahead and experiment. Folks can only say what they have experienced or those close to them have experienced. You dont have to accept these accounts just as you dont have to accept anything anyone says. HOWEVER, the more people who give warnings, probably, the more the warnings should be heeded.
Last edited by PJSaturn; 03-10-2017 at 08:35 AM..
Reason: Reference to post which has been deleted.
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I won't argue that the planchette is moved by the subconscious, that is highly probable, and may or may not be how it actually moves, or just one of the many ways it is moved. And of course there are those sittings when some one is making things up to mess with the other sitters.
Let's set the latter to the side because those are, without question, defiantly not paranormal or mysterious.
So how might you logically explain a sitting of two people, a third person just observing.
The phone rings, phone is across the house and the observer goes to answer the phone. The sitters ask who is on the phone and the planchette moves to 'G', then 'boy'. Observer screams.... Sitters call out, "Who is on the phone?"... The reply from observer was '..he said he's 'G'od!'... Sitter gets up to deal with phone call, it's her big jokester brother, named 'G'regg.
So, be it by was of external spirit energy, some other form of energy, or the subconscious of the sitter(s), via some sibling connection, this DID happen. And I would classify that as paranormal as there was no way the sitter could have known it was her brother on the phone, let alone that he would call himself God at that moment.
I will listen to any other possible logical explanation of how it happened.
As for James Randi, from what I understand, the testing methods and assessment standards are made in such a way that it is impossible to 'pass'.
I get visual flashes of things, some are in the past in locations far away, some are for the future and then I watch it unfold in real life. I cannot MAKE these flashes happen, they just randomly occur. That would make testing impossible in my case, yet the events are very real and quite valid. If the crew would follow me around for a week or two and just take notes... They would find that something is up and not explained by normal logic. But that's not how they do it.
Mod cut: Orphaned (replies to comments which have been deleted).
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlKaMyst
I won't argue that the planchette is moved by the subconscious, that is highly probable, and may or may not be how it actually moves, or just one of the many ways it is moved. And of course there are those sittings when some one is making things up to mess with the other sitters.
Let's set the latter to the side because those are, without question, defiantly not paranormal or mysterious.
So how might you logically explain a sitting of two people, a third person just observing.
The phone rings, phone is across the house and the observer goes to answer the phone. The sitters ask who is on the phone and the planchette moves to 'G', then 'boy'. Observer screams.... Sitters call out, "Who is on the phone?"... The reply from observer was '..he said he's 'G'od!'... Sitter gets up to deal with phone call, it's her big jokester brother, named 'G'regg.
If his brother is named Greg it is not that random and the people using the Ouji board know this. It is a subconscious guess perhaps. The brother is much more likely to call the house than say Bruce Jenner. And why G boy and not even spell Greg?
If a ouji board is capable of knowing who is on the phone in a different room why is it not used to find lost children or solve murders?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlKaMyst
So, be it by was of external spirit energy, some other form of energy, or the subconscious of the sitter(s), via some sibling connection, this DID happen. And I would classify that as paranormal as there was no way the sitter could have known it was her brother on the phone, let alone that he would call himself God at that moment.
God and Gregg both begin with the letter G.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlKaMyst
I will listen to any other possible logical explanation of how it happened.
As for James Randi, from what I understand, the testing methods and assessment standards are made in such a way that it is impossible to 'pass'.
Do you have any clear examples because I have watched some videos of him debunking and they all seem fair and logical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlKaMyst
I get visual flashes of things, some are in the past in locations far away, some are for the future and then I watch it unfold in real life. I cannot MAKE these flashes happen, they just randomly occur. That would make testing impossible in my case, yet the events are very real and quite valid. If the crew would follow me around for a week or two and just take notes... They would find that something is up and not explained by normal logic. But that's not how they do it.
Or you could carry a tape recorder and record notes as you get flashes.
The Ouija board has been tested, by Randi as indicated above, and Penn & Teller did a simple test - blindfolded users were tested, they simply turned the board upside down, and the answers turned into gibberish. I think you can find the video on it on YouTube.
It's called the ideomotor effect - you can test it as well without a Ouija board - put a weight on a string (like a button) hold the string with a finger and ask yourself a question yes or no (agreeing with the "spirits" beforehand that yes is clockwise and no is counterclockwise). You will swear that you are making no motion but the string will move to the desired effect.
It's more about what it says about the human mind than the spiritual world - there is a disconnect between will and muscular activity. This is a well documented scientific concept used in phychological research and hypnotism, in the past it was used as a device by fraud mediums. That is still exists in the form of a Hasbro toy is...quaint. One factor remains, it's probably not healthy for a mentally unstable person to use a Ouija board as they are the people more prone to suggestion.
It is quite pointless trying argue the validity of the tools which are used to divine. The power is not in them but in the human using them.
Yes, it might be muscle effects which cause a movement but it is istill the human mind which is acting as a receiver and the human body which is showing us the effect. Think of it like the receiving circuit and the loudspeakers.
Why do people keep saying there is no truth in all this stuff when it has been shown for years we only use 5-10% of our brain's potential.
Dowsers use sticks to indicate where the water is. It has been done that way for ages, so maybe we examine that phenomena and start to ridicule and question that too.
It is quite pointless trying argue the validity of the tools which are used to divine. The power is not in them but in the human using them.
Yes, it might be muscle effects which cause a movement but it is istill the human mind which is acting as a receiver and the human body which is showing us the effect. Think of it like the receiving circuit and the loudspeakers.
It does not matter if it is the tool or the person when neither can pass certain simple tests to ascertain if they actually work. I am not questioning whether the tool or the person is not working, I am questioning if there is actually anything supernatural being done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20
Why do people keep saying there is no truth in all this stuff when it has been shown for years we only use 5-10% of our brain's potential.
Because that is a myth and when you build theories on incorrect information it is harder to come out with a factual conclusion.
Dowsers use sticks to indicate where the water is. It has been done that way for ages, so maybe we examine that phenomena and start to ridicule and question that too.
I do question that dowsing is any more effective than just a person with good knowledge of geology and the land is and in most of the United States maybe just slightly more effective than a chicken since in most of the US if you dig deep enough you will probably find water.
The James Randi Educational Foundation also offered the challenge to dowsers and never had to pay. But there are other issues as well, why would anyone settle for the James Randi reward when they could make hundreds of millions working for the oil companies?
And then we get to even if it did work why would it automatically be a supernatural explanation as opposed to a physical/scientific explanation. Swiftly changing the direction of a the discussion to make it all disjointed does not make the parts of the whole correct.
"Brain imaging research techniques such as PET scans (positron emission tomography) and fMRI (functional magnetic resonance imaging) clearly show that the vast majority of the brain does not lie fallow."
Mod cut: Orphaned (replies to comments which have been deleted).
If his brother is named Greg it is not that random and the people using the Ouji board know this. It is a subconscious guess perhaps. The brother is much more likely to call the house than say Bruce Jenner. And why G boy and not even spell Greg?
If a ouji board is capable of knowing who is on the phone in a different room why is it not used to find lost children or solve murders?
God and Gregg both begin with the letter G.
Do you have any clear examples because I have watched some videos of him debunking and they all seem fair and logical.
Or you could carry a tape recorder and record notes as you get flashes.
Do you ever get any benefit from these flashes?
Why G-boy; because the answer was both God and Gregg, as you say, they both start with G. So what ever connection, be it external (spirit) or internal (subconscious), it was an all enclusive answer. And yes, it was more likely that her brother would call than Bruce Jenner, however, it was also more likely that her mother would be calling. Her brother hardly ever called the house, it was more likely that he would just stop by because that's what he did. It was still a more precise event than just a random luck of the draw coincidence.
Perhaps the board has been used for such things like solving crimes, but we just do not hear about it because of the stigma attached to it. The information I read about the Randi tests was long ago, I would not know where to look.
What good would a tape recorder do? For a Randi test, that is not valid. It would be instantly dismissed. I don't need the tape recorder. As the flash will either leave a big enough impression on me or it won't. The bigger the ordeal, the more memorable it is.
I'm not sure what you mean by "Benefits"? In some cases it keeps me from having a melt down.
Like the time my BF was murdered/went missing. I was emotionally prepared even though at the time I had no clue what the outcome would be, but less than two days later he was gone. Don't know what benefit it was, but in those first days he was gone, a close friend asked what I felt happened -she specifically, without knowing I had such impressions, and expressed, 'not think, feeeel' happened to him. Turned out I was right. Maybe the benefit was to bring more trust in myself when I have those kinds of impressions and not be so dismissive of them or logic my way out of them?
A more recent event was moving. For weeks I kept getting the impression the landlords wanted the house. So I started getting rid of things and packing. Six months later we were moving because the landlords wanted to move into the house. So there, I payed attention to the feeling and did something about it where normally I would have argued with myself over it saying I was just being 'paranoid'.
I am going to get a real Ouija board, not the game, and go into the forest and use it so if I make contact with anything, it won't be in my own home. LOL
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