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Old 06-30-2017, 08:22 PM
 
Location: UK
6,908 posts, read 6,819,931 times
Reputation: 6513

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S
If you believe that there are alien/human hybrids, great. Please share the evidence. How did you come to this conclusion? How do you address the critics? You can't just say, "Well, that's my belief." That's no different than someone who believes in fairies or phrenology.
I can say all those things because I am referring to a book in this thread. It is not for me to convince anyone, I am not the author.

Thats why I gave the details of the book in the first post. Not for me to convince you of anything but for a topic of discussion. You need to read the book if you are interested in the subject or not if you couldn't care less.

As always, dont take my word for it, do your own research and reading.
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Old 06-30-2017, 09:04 PM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,477,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _redbird_ View Post
I agree. Our puny brains are still trying to make sense of the world around us. So how could we explain phenomena that has never been open to public/scientific scrutiny.




Wouldn't those tiny little metal objects placed under the skin of alleged abductees qualify as a "boot" left behind? After all, aren't they supposedly placed there by the "aliens" who allegedly abducted people?

I was watching one of those TV shows, ha ha I know- I don't take some made-for-TV show as proof, but one show showed how some of the metal objects were removed and how some of the metal objects allegedly moved away from the surgeon's scalpel, etc. I am not saying this proves anything, I am merely asking would these objects not be perceived as a boot?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_implants

As for me, hypnotic regression just doesn't meet the criteria of being able to be meeting scientific peer review. I DO believe those put under hypnotic regression believe what they are recounting, but that would be like me telling a hypnotist what a great lover I am. That is not really meant to be snarky, just another point.

I realize you are wanting comments on the book you posted. Just wanted to chime in my take. I love the subject matter, but as some of the others have stated, empirical evidence is required.

I will check out the link you provided.
The problem is, the evidence does exist, but unfortunately the general public does not have access to it, so its hard to have a serious discussion about this topic when a great majority of the facts are kept classified except to a handful of people.

I do believe something is going on and some agency in our Govt is fully involved, my best guess is NRO and CIA. National Security advisor Dick DaMato found proof of a coverup back in the 90s, he actually found the group that was responsible for maintaining the coverup, when its in their best interest the Govt is EXTREMELY good at keeping secrets.
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Old 07-01-2017, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,162 posts, read 4,464,096 times
Reputation: 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
I can say all those things because I am referring to a book in this thread. It is not for me to convince anyone, I am not the author.

Thats why I gave the details of the book in the first post. Not for me to convince you of anything but for a topic of discussion. You need to read the book if you are interested in the subject or not if you couldn't care less.

As always, dont take my word for it, do your own research and reading.
You better bring something to the table when you call me ignorant.
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Old 07-01-2017, 04:10 PM
 
Location: UK
6,908 posts, read 6,819,931 times
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Old Guard you are skilled at appearing to be offended, but if you really cared, I have explained your misunderstanding twice now. Read through the thread and see what I said and how '"blissful ignorance" is not insulting anyone - even you.

This is another use of the phrase where you can see it is not offensive to anyone.
They went on happily watching TV in blissful ignorance as the huge comet sped towards Earth.
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Old 07-01-2017, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,162 posts, read 4,464,096 times
Reputation: 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Old Guard you are skilled at appearing to be offended, but if you really cared, I have explained your misunderstanding twice now. Read through the thread and see what I said and how '"blissful ignorance" is not insulting anyone - even you.

This is another use of the phrase where you can see it is not offensive to anyone.
They went on happily watching TV in blissful ignorance as the huge comet sped towards Earth.
Like many of the things you say I disagree with it. First it does not matter if you meant it to be insulting, it was. Second I think it was just a way for you to say that you know more than anyone that disagrees with you. Being questioned on your statements you have abandoned your points and have said that it was not mean to be insulting without actually apologizing.
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Old 07-04-2017, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Maine
22,864 posts, read 28,131,911 times
Reputation: 31073
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
I can say all those things because I am referring to a book in this thread. It is not for me to convince anyone, I am not the author.
Fair enough. But based on your description, I'm not convinced, on this line alone: "...he outlines what he has discovered by hypnotically regressing abductees."

The clinical accuracy of hypnosis has never been thoroughly established, while "repressed memories" have been shown to be extremely unreliable, open to suggestion, or outright false.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...dhood-memories
Repressed Memory | Harvard Magazine


Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Not for me to convince you of anything but for a topic of discussion.
Isn't the point of a discussion to share your point of view with others and try to convince them? Or maybe to see the weaknesses and strengths in your own argument and in those of others? If not, what's the point?
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Old 07-05-2017, 08:52 AM
 
Location: UK
6,908 posts, read 6,819,931 times
Reputation: 6513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S
Isn't the point of a discussion to share your point of view with others and try to convince them? Or maybe to see the weaknesses and strengths in your own argument and in those of others? If not, what's the point?
Share opinions, yes but not necessarily to convince others. However, books are often written to try to convince people of the authors point of view, and in this case, I tend to believe there is enough evidence for me in David Jacob's book mentioned in the OP.

Quote:
The clinical accuracy of hypnosis has never been thoroughly established, while "repressed memories" have been shown to be extremely unreliable, open to suggestion, or outright false.
If not, then why so many doctors use it in their practices? I do not think any of the methods of investigating our brains have been proved at this point in time. There can be measurements done on the brains electrical system and photos taken of the different electrical activity but looking for concrete proof in that area may not be with us for a long while yet. Of course, there are some practitioners who let their own beliefs intrude on their hypnosis and there will always be 'good' and 'bad' practitioners, I dont know how you expect these mind doctors to be totally impartial and unbiased. I do not think there will ever be perfect practitioners.

David Jacobs does say that he is well aware of the pitfalls of hypnosis and says he tries not to influence his subjects, but again, you need to read the book to determine whether you feel his efforts are enough and whether his practices are unbiased by his beliefs.
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Maine
22,864 posts, read 28,131,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
If not, then why so many doctors use it in their practices?
I don't know that they do.

And there is a big difference between the hypnosis we see in the movies and read about in popular fiction and the real clinical use of hypnosis. The few therapists I have known that use it merely use it as a way to settle the mind during therapy. But as far as retrieving "repressed memories" and forcing people to cluck like chickens or become covert assassins --- that is the stuff of fiction and carnival acts, not reality.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
I do not think any of the methods of investigating our brains have been proved at this point in time. There can be measurements done on the brains electrical system and photos taken of the different electrical activity but looking for concrete proof in that area may not be with us for a long while yet.
Agreed. But it does not therefore follow that we can believe any and every claim supposedly made under hypnosis.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
David Jacobs does say that he is well aware of the pitfalls of hypnosis and says he tries not to influence his subjects, but again, you need to read the book to determine whether you feel his efforts are enough and whether his practices are unbiased by his beliefs.
Fair enough.

But before you wholeheartedly buy in to what Jacobs is selling, perhaps take in another point of view? Try this:

https://www.amazon.com/Abducted-Peop.../dp/067402401X
Abducted: How People Come to Believe They Were Kidnapped by Aliens, by Susan Clancy.
Quote:
They are tiny. They are tall. They are gray. They are green. They survey our world with enormous glowing eyes. To conduct their shocking experiments, they creep in at night to carry humans off to their spaceships. Yet there is no evidence that they exist at all. So how could anyone believe he or she was abducted by aliens? Or want to believe it?

To answer these questions, psychologist Susan Clancy interviewed and evaluated "abductees"--old and young, male and female, religious and agnostic. She listened closely to their stories--how they struggled to explain something strange in their remembered experience, how abduction seemed plausible, and how, having suspected abduction, they began to recollect it, aided by suggestion and hypnosis.

Clancy argues that abductees are sane and intelligent people who have unwittingly created vivid false memories from a toxic mix of nightmares, culturally available texts (abduction reports began only after stories of extraterrestrials appeared in films and on TV), and a powerful drive for meaning that science is unable to satisfy. For them, otherworldly terror can become a transforming, even inspiring experience. "Being abducted," writes Clancy, "may be a baptism in the new religion of this millennium." This book is not only a subtle exploration of the workings of memory, but a sensitive inquiry into the nature of belief.
And on that note, I bow out, because I am not going to read a book in which I don't really have all that much interest.
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Old 07-05-2017, 12:59 PM
 
15,633 posts, read 26,159,772 times
Reputation: 30922
My sister underwent hypnosis to stop smoking. Didn't work. Neither did Chantix... what worked? A TIA -- ministroke.


I've known people who underwent hypnosis for things and never saw it really work. A friend went through it for weight loss -- it seemed like it worked, but in reality, she white knuckle dieted... and when she lost a lot of weight, stopped... and gained it back. What I meant by white knuckle diet -- her whole life was about food she couldn't eat. If we had a birthday cake for work, she couldn't' eat any of it... her hypnosis made it so she wouldn't want any... yeah -- could you tell the guy the next time, to make you les annoying about it?


Essentially she was talking herself into not eating...constantly. After 6 months, she relaxed... and started eating badly again.
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Old 07-05-2017, 05:54 PM
 
Location: UK
6,908 posts, read 6,819,931 times
Reputation: 6513
As far as phobias and unwanted habits are concerned, you have to admit that it IS usually to do with our mind and possibly with a past association which is not serving our best interests. If hypnosis can speak directly to our subconsciousness and avoid the conscious filtering system, then it can work. There is no doubt that the stage hypnosis acts can work for many people and those people DO quack like ducks of do whatever they are told on stage. Last year Howie Mandel was hypnotised on Americas Got Talent to overcome his handshake phobia (for a little while) and that definitely worked. Tallysmom - I think sometimes hypnosis does achieve positive results but not for everyone - very similar to any healing modality. Not everything works for everyone, it is horses for courses.

There is a technique called The Christos Experiment which can supposedly regress people at home. Developed by Gerald Glaskin it relies on two other people helping the 'traveller' to take a journey out or body to another time/place. It is interesting to read about although I have never done it.

The thing is, abductions DO have physical evidence. There are episodes of missing time experienced by the abductee themselves or when the abductee is not where they are supposed to be. They are physically absent. For example, they are travelling home and the journey takes hours longer than it should take.

Sometimes there are multiple witnesses who experience the same missing time. There are unexplained marks on the body and sometimes the abductees wake up with different pyjamas on, not their own.

I think we(some of us) are ignoring the physical proof aspects of this phenomena because we do not want to believe it.
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