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Old 03-03-2018, 09:17 AM
 
17,260 posts, read 11,078,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Roughly two thirds of the population has smartphones that can take pretty good pictures. It is one thing to say you saw something and it is another thing to prove it. Like the time my wife and I spotted a mountain lion in a state that has no mountain lions - we had no proof and I could not get a Game Commission officer to look for signs and tracks to verify our sighting. Without the proof it is just a report and nothing more. While I have told many people of our sighting; that does not mean that everybody has to believe without that proof. One good video picture, or one little clump of hair or one little glob of poo would do with today's DNA testing. This has gone on for so many years and our world gets smaller every year as technology improves. We need tangible evidence.
Regarding mountain lions, they do exist in some areas thought to be void of them. In Conn, one was hit by a car and killed even though Game Commission denied for years that they existed there. It's easier for authorities to deny their existence than to publicly say they are there. If they are officially acknowledged, it opens a can of worms with some people becoming panicked and demanding they are exterminated while others want to protect them and put them on an endangered list.
Mountain lions in general want nothing more than to be left alone, hunt for their own food away from people. Even where they are known to exist, they are rarely seen.
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Old 03-03-2018, 11:22 AM
 
12,577 posts, read 8,809,297 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
...

I've been roaming the back country for over fifty years. I've never seen a wolf, lynx, bobcat, wolverine, badger, or many other animals that are known to exist.

Really? I've seen mountain lion in Colorado. Bobcat here in Tennessee. Watched coyote chase down an antelope. Even came within 5 feet of one chowing down on a rabbit one night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
Regarding mountain lions, they do exist in some areas thought to be void of them. In Conn, one was hit by a car and killed even though Game Commission denied for years that they existed there. It's easier for authorities to deny their existence than to publicly say they are there. If they are officially acknowledged, it opens a can of worms with some people becoming panicked and demanding they are exterminated while others want to protect them and put them on an endangered list.
Mountain lions in general want nothing more than to be left alone, hunt for their own food away from people. Even where they are known to exist, they are rarely seen.
Same as our state. I don't think it's due to some conspiracy of silence but simple scientific evidence. A biologist or any other scientist will stick with "the data says X" until they get different data that says Y. Acknowledging didn't open any big issues or panics; it just took solid evidence to change the previously established knowledge to new knowledge.


For example I have seen what I believe is a fisher. We're at the extreme, extreme end of their range. As in they shouldn't be here. But it's the only thing that matches what I saw. Years ago my dad, who was a big fisherman, caught a musky in a state where they aren't supposed to exist. Fish and game refused to acknowledge their presence even though he had an actual fish in hand; instead they claimed it must have been a one off someone put in the river from an aquarium. It was only several years later after someone caught another one that they confirmed a small, but breeding population.
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Old 03-06-2018, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,754 posts, read 17,961,406 times
Reputation: 14730
Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
Regarding mountain lions, they do exist in some areas thought to be void of them. In Conn, one was hit by a car and killed even though Game Commission denied for years that they existed there. It's easier for authorities to deny their existence than to publicly say they are there. If they are officially acknowledged, it opens a can of worms with some people becoming panicked and demanding they are exterminated while others want to protect them and put them on an endangered list.
Mountain lions in general want nothing more than to be left alone, hunt for their own food away from people. Even where they are known to exist, they are rarely seen.
The woman that hit and killed the mountain lion in Connecticut gave some credibility to our sighting in Northeastern PA. So I did feel vindicated. The DNA testing of that animal determined that it came from South Dakota and it is conceivable that it crossed through PA to get to CONN. It was killed on the road there just a few years after our sighting.

That said; it is still logical that my Game Commission wrote off our sighting - they had no proof that any had lived in our State for a very long time. It is very easy to think that any animal in our State would end up dead on the side of our road or by a hunter. Of course my Game Commission told me that it would be illegal to shoot any mountain lion because they are an endangered species! I asked how they could be endangered if they did not exist; they I promised that I would not shoot the animal if I ever saw it again (which I did not).

These are the same questions that have to be asked about BF. We have hundreds of millions of vehicles on our roads and no carcasses. BF enthusiast have supposedly spotted these creatures all over the US; including some populated areas. Of course many of these are simply a hoax; but how do we separate those that are real - how do we determine of any are real? As much as mountain lions want to be left alone; it did not save that one large cat in Connecticut. I know that BF enthusiasts have credited BF with supernatural powers; but there is still no proof of any powers.
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Old 03-06-2018, 06:32 AM
 
17,260 posts, read 11,078,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
The woman that hit and killed the mountain lion in Connecticut gave some credibility to our sighting in Northeastern PA. So I did feel vindicated. The DNA testing of that animal determined that it came from South Dakota and it is conceivable that it crossed through PA to get to CONN. It was killed on the road there just a few years after our sighting.

That said; it is still logical that my Game Commission wrote off our sighting - they had no proof that any had lived in our State for a very long time. It is very easy to think that any animal in our State would end up dead on the side of our road or by a hunter. Of course my Game Commission told me that it would be illegal to shoot any mountain lion because they are an endangered species! I asked how they could be endangered if they did not exist; they I promised that I would not shoot the animal if I ever saw it again (which I did not).

These are the same questions that have to be asked about BF. We have hundreds of millions of vehicles on our roads and no carcasses. BF enthusiast have supposedly spotted these creatures all over the US; including some populated areas. Of course many of these are simply a hoax; but how do we separate those that are real - how do we determine of any are real? As much as mountain lions want to be left alone; it did not save that one large cat in Connecticut. I know that BF enthusiasts have credited BF with supernatural powers; but there is still no proof of any powers.
Yes and when all is said and done, I have to wonder how many mountain lions are out there that are never seen, never reported, never hit by a car.
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Old 03-06-2018, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,754 posts, read 17,961,406 times
Reputation: 14730
Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
Yes and when all is said and done, I have to wonder how many mountain lions are out there that are never seen, never reported, never hit by a car.
Of course some of those 'never hit by a car' lions were photographed with trail cameras and by hikers with cell phones and those pictures are actually clear.

How much does it cost to produce a TV program on BF? How much can be made with a successful book, lectures, guided tours, clubs? Many of the hoaxes have simply been pranks to fool friends or their community. But there are others that try to perpetuate the myth for money; this is not unheard of. We have had priest and others that have perpetuated weeping statues hoaxes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weepin...and_skepticism. If money is involved; somebody will find a way. Many people that perpetuate any hoax are never charged with a crime; they simply lose respect. There are others that gain the respect of their immediate friends because they feel they are smarter or better than those they fooled.

I am aware that I should never say never or it is impossible. We still find new species and there is a faint possibility that we have overlooked something. I just want credible proof.
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:50 PM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,416,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Really? I've seen mountain lion in Colorado. Bobcat here in Tennessee. Watched coyote chase down an antelope. Even came within 5 feet of one chowing down on a rabbit one night.



Same as our state. I don't think it's due to some conspiracy of silence but simple scientific evidence. A biologist or any other scientist will stick with "the data says X" until they get different data that says Y. Acknowledging didn't open any big issues or panics; it just took solid evidence to change the previously established knowledge to new knowledge.


For example I have seen what I believe is a fisher. We're at the extreme, extreme end of their range. As in they shouldn't be here. But it's the only thing that matches what I saw. Years ago my dad, who was a big fisherman, caught a musky in a state where they aren't supposed to exist. Fish and game refused to acknowledge their presence even though he had an actual fish in hand; instead they claimed it must have been a one off someone put in the river from an aquarium. It was only several years later after someone caught another one that they confirmed a small, but breeding population.
The FBI has analyzed hair samples, they concluded they were not from a known animal or human species.
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Old 03-07-2018, 09:21 AM
 
17,260 posts, read 11,078,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
The FBI has analyzed hair samples, they concluded they were not from a known animal or human species.
Unless this information comes directly from the FBI, how do you know it's credible?
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:57 AM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,416,137 times
Reputation: 15329
Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
Unless this information comes directly from the FBI, how do you know it's credible?
It did come straight from the FBI, they clearly admitted hair samples were done and it was non human and non animal.
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Old 03-08-2018, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
12,441 posts, read 14,748,866 times
Reputation: 28430
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
...it was non human and non animal.
Yeah, right - "non-animal".
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Old 03-08-2018, 09:28 PM
 
5,463 posts, read 9,591,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
It did come straight from the FBI, they clearly admitted hair samples were done and it was non human and non animal.
Non human? Non animal? So then it was a plant?
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