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Old 04-21-2018, 11:01 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,092 posts, read 107,197,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RP2C View Post
Do you have some type of link or description of the sources of these images. It's hard to put them in any kind of context without knowing exactly where and when they are from. I'm especially interested in the "orb" photo; where can I find information on it. Thanks!
Yeah, I'm wondering what book the OP is getting these from. It's the second image he's posted in recent weeks, with a similar-looking extraneous object introduced into a pre-modern context. With this one, it's clear it was planted on the statue to create a fake "mystery". By whom, I wonder: the author of the book that's the source for the OP's photos, perhaps?
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:05 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Ruth - No need to be sorry. It is not about being gullible but about asking questions which lead to answers. Sometimes the questions are not obvious ones. If you like to live in a world where everything is cut and dried and you are told what to believe, then that is fine - for you, but not for me.

You know as well as I do that gods are worshipped and symbols or devices ere placed in the pictures painted or carvings created of them. These symbols often have a basis in reality, so for example, the enlightened one who had an affinity with nature and who could speak with animals and birds would have a bird on his shoulder or a deer at his feet. The halo around Christ's head is what the psychics see around the head of enlightened ones. Egyptian gods often have strange unknown devices in their hands which currently we have no idea what they were for.

Are you telling me these were merely symbols too because I dont think so. As I said, the middle piece/shape in the 'walking stick' in image 1 of the god, has a corresponding similar shape in Indian gods and features in images of 'thunderbolts' and is often seen as a device wielded by war-gods. There is a story of inter-alien wars in the skies above Earth, which although you may not believe, many people do believe this really happened. There is a layer in the ground in some parts of the world which indicates an ancient nuclear blast which would support this idea.

Now, you can tell me this is just pure symbolism and has no basis in reality, but I feel you are mistaken and I suspect some of these items DID have some kind use beyond the symolic.
You're missing the point. The point is that you're falsely assuming that the round ball was original to the statue. It's not; it's a much later addition by someone trying to create a fake mystery, IOW a hoax. Again, if you knew anything about ancient Buddhist iconography, you'd know that. Not to mention the fact that the wires sticking out of the ball look really hokey, lol.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
32,813 posts, read 36,084,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
You're missing the point. The point is that you're falsely assuming that the round ball was original to the statue. It's not; it's a much later addition by someone trying to create a fake mystery, IOW a hoax. Again, if you knew anything about ancient Buddhist iconography, you'd know that. Not to mention the fact that the wires sticking out of the ball look really hokey, lol.
Like this: https://www.lotussculpture.com/Wood-...Sculpture.html
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Back then, when these statues and paintings were made; they selected artist to create 'gods'. If their creations were not what the hierarchy wanted; the artist could face death. The 'creations' had to demonstrate some powers that the average citizens did not possess. It could be tremendous wealth, anatomical abnormalities, or even weapons or gizmos nobody was familiar with - they had to be more than human.

The science fiction writers today come up with amazing stories and pictures. Think of how we operate; we build on the imagination of others. Back then, if one artist portrayed a god as having four arms; the next would make theirs better with six arms. Of course nobody ever speculated that weight of the extra arms might slow these gods down! We have seen paintings and statues with twelve and sixteen arms; each artist had to be more impressive than the last artist. The artist did not even have to travel to far away lands; all they had to do is hear about the amazing stories and gods of other cultures.
The modern Western notion that an artist always needs to find a new way to represent things is the result of the enlightenment. Traditional art doesn't work that way. Hindu gods are represented with multiple arms and heads for artistic and spiritual reasons, not as representations of literal arms:

https://detechter.com/here-is-the-re...rms-and-heads/

Traditional religious art is conservative - the artist is trained on the exact forms to be used, which develop slowly over centuries and change slowly, if at all. That's why fourth century Christian iconography looks the same as contemporary iconography. In the West, this started changing with Giotto who introduced innovations into sacred art like modern notions of perspective. In the East, iconographers spend years learning how to write an icon and it's considered sacred work. You learn how to write icons the way it's always been done, not how to create something "new" and "fresh". We leave new and fresh to our Western heterodox friends.

I'm not as familiar with Buddhist and Hindu art, but my wager is that artists in those traditions have always approached their representations of gods in the same way: innovation is not a virtue.
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Old 04-23-2018, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
The modern Western notion that an artist always needs to find a new way to represent things is the result of the enlightenment. Traditional art doesn't work that way. Hindu gods are represented with multiple arms and heads for artistic and spiritual reasons, not as representations of literal arms:
Correct. A friend of ours is a lifelong very devout Hindu. She confirms. Hindus do not believe in literal elephant-headed or eight-limbed deities. It's symbolism. Strictly speaking, Hindus don't believe in literal gods. They believe in a Supreme Deity that manifests various aspects of the Divine through varying deities, avatars, etc. But ultimately only One God.

That said, Robert E. Howard once wrote a really cool story about an elephant-headed deity that turned out to be an alien. Keep in mind that Conan, despite nerd longings everywhere, continues to be fiction.

Tower of the Elephant
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:46 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerania View Post
Yes, so? You'll have to point out to me whatever it is I'm supposed to notice. If there's an incongruous element, I'm not seeing it. Or were you referring to the seemingly disembodied head, floating above and behind the Buddha, in a couple of Theo photos? lol
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Correct. A friend of ours is a lifelong very devout Hindu. She confirms. Hindus do not believe in literal elephant-headed or eight-limbed deities. It's symbolism. Strictly speaking, Hindus don't believe in literal gods. They believe in a Supreme Deity that manifests various aspects of the Divine through varying deities, avatars, etc. But ultimately only One God.
Yeah, a lot of people are surprised to learn that Hinduism is monotheistic -- as I recall, there are African religions as well that on the surface appear to be polytheistic but are really at their heart monotheistic. I think people in this forum want to believe in the ancient astronaut god hypothesis so strongly that they're blind to the reality that most pre-modern artistic traditions are not intended to be representational. Which is something anyone with a couple of undergrad art history courses could tell them.

Quote:
That said, Robert E. Howard once wrote a really cool story about an elephant-headed deity that turned out to be an alien. Keep in mind that Conan, despite nerd longings everywhere, continues to be fiction.
Got to love that 30s style pulp art.

As an aside - An Indian Christian family from my old parish brought a Hindu relative from the old country to visit during Divine Liturgy. At another time, they brought a Buddhist visitor. Both were pleasantly surprised to find that the symbolism, icons, incense, chanting, vestments, the metanias (deep bows) all felt familiar to them. They felt oddly at home in the Orthodox Liturgy.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:37 AM
 
Location: UK
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The images in my first post are taken at the site and do not come from any book. This means that if ANYONE faked it, then they are as 'authentic' as the original creators who were all probably monks of the temple. These carvings, as has already been said, are probably created out of a sense of devotion.

I realise it is only human to shoot the messenger, but I am only bringing to your attention the wierd head shapes and the wierd devices found in more than one of these temples.

I completely understand how iconography is used by religions to depict wisdom, enlightenment, etc but in this case I feel there is some basis for the carvings we see in the temples. I believe I am correct in saying that some if not all of the enlightened ones were embalmed after their death by the Tibetans. If that is true, then it is perfectly possible that they know what they looked like. The face skin might change but the shape of the skull does not change just because someone is old.

As to the god carvings, I dont know how they arrived at these, however they are all depicted with fierce faces and in battle dress so they must be designed to frighten.

What do we think about the ridges in the skulls of the enlightened ones?
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Old 04-24-2018, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,162 posts, read 4,464,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
The images in my first post are taken at the site and do not come from any book. This means that if ANYONE faked it, then they are as 'authentic' as the original creators who were all probably monks of the temple. These carvings, as has already been said, are probably created out of a sense of devotion.
I do not understand, are you saying that you took the images at the site yourself?
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
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I'll point out that the globe in the statue with the wires is as dusty as the rest of the statue, and appears to have cobwebs on it. After digging around a bit, my guess is that it may be an old addition to the statue intended to represent what is called a wish fulfilling jewel, and the wires are intended to be stylized flames. See:

Ritual Objects, Symbols, & Weapons in Japanese Buddhism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cintamani

If it was added later to an existing statue, I suggest someone may have added it for devotional purposes, by someone hoping their devotion would be rewarded by fulfillment of whatever it was they were wishing for. Whether or not this is the case, the above two articles show that there are plenty of explanations for the object that don't require positing "unknown technology".

I'll wager with sufficient digging I could find a symbolic/spiritual explanation for the ridged skulls on the enlightened ones.

Last edited by Vasily; 04-24-2018 at 08:32 AM..
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