Tapping the great Collective Consciousness (phenomena, aliens, ghost, secret)
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So many people want to be psychic, to know "things".
I think we should be taught this woo kind of stuff in school and then we would have a far different world. Mainly because learning would become exploratory and personally satisfying. Being taught something someone else wants us to learn produces a bunch of like-thinking people and stifles diverse ideas which might one day save us from war, meteors, aliens, anything. Secondly, we could probably tell if we were being deceived too which is important in our world today.
Perhaps we do not know enough about it all at the moment, but there are various branches of woo/beliefs/religion/whatever, ranging from the fairly scientific do-this-and-get-this-result to the more touchy-feely branch.
To me, Remote Viewing seems to be a relatively structured branch of woo which could become a definite advantage to all who learn it. There are many people teaching it these days, this guys site is just one of them but he was in the CIA/military group which developed and trained military personnel.
I understand that you think this but it's hard to understand why.
In my opinion we would be better off teaching children better critical thinking skills so they would reject the kind of baseless hypotheses you are so eager to disseminate.
I learned about 'woo stuff' in grade-school. Specifically, it was a segment in Science class where we learned to tell the difference between real science and the scientific method, and bullshizzle. Personally, I am profoundly grateful that I had the good fortune to attend a school that educated me in such a distinction which has served me well in the decades since. It taught me how to think critically about statements made, to analyze the basis for such statements and determine their validity; it served as a foundation to avoid being taken by con-artists and swindlers, and to divest myself of ridiculous notions regarding myths, legends, religion, and a whole host of other crap that many people get suckered into believing.
I understand that you think this but it's hard to understand why.
In my opinion we would be better off teaching children better critical thinking skills so they would reject the kind of baseless hypotheses you are so eager to disseminate.
The why is esy to explain. If you had read any of the literature and books written by the early pioneers of RV, you would realise how wrong you are to think there is no valid evidence for this 'technology'. I believe that RV opens the door to a whole host of as-yet unexplained phenomena of the mind, not brain...mind. To me, it suggests a common connection to each of us.
I am eager to point out that the US military decided there was enough "baseless hypotheses" in Remote Vieweing to run an RV section for probably more than 20 years. Not only that, it is used by companies and organisation today to gain an edge over competitors. Are you honestly telling me that your science with all its critical thinking skills, is better than that paid for by the almost limitless coffers of the governments of the world.
If Russia and the USA has RV units, then there are probably other countries which have them too. How baseless can it be with all this going on across the world?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zymer
I learned about 'woo stuff' in grade-school. Specifically, it was a segment in Science class where we learned to tell the difference between real science and the scientific method, and bullshizzle. Personally, I am profoundly grateful that I had the good fortune to attend a school that educated me in such a distinction which has served me well in the decades since. It taught me how to think critically about statements made, to analyze the basis for such statements and determine their validity; it served as a foundation to avoid being taken by con-artists and swindlers, and to divest myself of ridiculous notions regarding myths, legends, religion, and a whole host of other crap that many people get suckered into believing.
Both of these statements above are interesting because they show just how critical thinking can be severely limiting in some circumstances like these. You both believe critical thinking can save us from scammers and con-artists. Of course, no-one likes to be tricked, but also - no-one wants to pass up on a new method or scientific discovery. This is what RV was in the early days when it was studied by top scientists and they pronounced there was some merit in the procedure and the results obtained were above mere chance so worth using where other methods of intelligence failed. Like it or not, this information WAS used by all three branches of the military. They thought it credible enough to use for active investigations. Now... why would they use it if it was/is just a bunch of scammers conning the government?
The why is esy to explain. If you had read any of the literature and books written by the early pioneers of RV, you would realise how wrong you are to think there is no valid evidence for this 'technology'. I believe that RV opens the door to a whole host of as-yet unexplained phenomena of the mind, not brain...mind. To me, it suggests a common connection to each of us.
I am eager to point out that the US military decided there was enough "baseless hypotheses" in Remote Vieweing to run an RV section for probably more than 20 years. Not only that, it is used by companies and organisation today to gain an edge over competitors. Are you honestly telling me that your science with all its critical thinking skills, is better than that paid for by the almost limitless coffers of the governments of the world.
If Russia and the USA has RV units, then there are probably other countries which have them too. How baseless can it be with all this going on across the world?
Both of these statements above are interesting because they show just how critical thinking can be severely limiting in some circumstances like these. You both believe critical thinking can save us from scammers and con-artists. Of course, no-one likes to be tricked, but also - no-one wants to pass up on a new method or scientific discovery. This is what RV was in the early days when it was studied by top scientists and they pronounced there was some merit in the procedure and the results obtained were above mere chance so worth using where other methods of intelligence failed. Like it or not, this information WAS used by all three branches of the military. They thought it credible enough to use for active investigations. Now... why would they use it if it was/is just a bunch of scammers conning the government?
This is what RV was in the early days when it was studied by top scientists and they pronounced there was some merit in the procedure and the results obtained were above mere chance so worth using where other methods of intelligence failed. Like it or not, this information WAS used by all three branches of the military. They thought it credible enough to use for active investigations. Now... why would they use it if it was/is just a bunch of scammers conning the government?
Well, consider that even during the time period these secret experiments and projects were going on relating to remote viewing, etc, like MK Ultra, govt lied about it and or tried to hide it, so Im not sure their word is that credible anymore. Who here on C-D knows whats going on in some deep black SAPs?!
I agree with the other poster, if there was truly nothing to any of these things, the projects and experiments would not have ran for so long, and the effort by the director to destroy all the findings by fire when the project became public knowledge. This tells me they did not want anyone to see what was in those findings.
Imo, they likely discovered some of these 'skills/ abilities' can be developed or switched on, in certain people, but even I can recognize why they would not want that information to become public.
To be honest, I believe we are all capable of incredible abilities, like telekinesis, remote viewing, etc, but we do not yet know how to mentally access or 'utilize' them.
Well, at least I offered some kind of reasoned argument why it might work, and I reckon many people would agree with those reasons.
For your opinion quoted above, you can't even be bothered to give any reasons why you believe:
a) Why it doesnt work
and
b) Why we should believe they closed it down?
Your post does not add to the discussion at all.
As far as b) goes, governments often say they have closed down projects but either move them to the private sector away from FOIA requests or they change the project name and move the section.
Mumford, Rose and Goslin "An Evaluation of Remote Viewing: Research and Applications" concluded (1) yes, there was some sort of effect observed, but it wasn't clear from the results that remote vieweing was the cause, (2) there were problems with the way the research was conducted that raise some questions about the result, and (3) the vague nature of the results made them worthless as an information gathering technique for the government. From the Executive Summary (link to article is above):
Quote:
... Even though a statistically significant effect has been observed in the laboratory, it remains unclear whether the existence of a paranormal phenomenon, remote viewing, has been demonstrated. The laboratory studies do not provide evidence regarding the origins or nature of the phenomenon, assuming it exists, nor do they address an important methodological issue of inter-judge reliability.
Further, even if it could be demonstrated unequivocally that a paranormal phenomenon occurs under the conditions present in the laboratory paradigm, these conditions have limited applicability and utility for intelligence gathering operations. For example, the nature of the remote viewing targets are vastly dissimilar, as are the specific tasks required of the remote viewers. Most importantly, the information provided by remote viewing is vague and ambiguous, making it difficult, if not impossible, for the technique to yield information of sufficient quality and accuracy of information for actionable intelligence. Thus, we conclude that continued use of remote viewing in intelligence gathering operations is not warranted. ...
Regarding companies using remote viewing to gain a competitive edge: there are companies like Psi Tech that claim to offer these services to businesses. There are also companies that offer "cleansing" services to companies that think they have "bad spiritual energies". A clinic I worked for had a "shaman" come in to smudge the building because there were strange noises at night that people were attributing to the ghost of the previous owner who committed suicide. Companies also bring in "expert consultants" to use "tools" like Myers-Briggs personality typing and enneagrams to improve teamwork. In fact, they spend huge amounts of money on these things typically because an executive has a friend who used them, or they heard something referenced at a seminar. Because companies spend money on pseudoscience doesn't serve as validation of the pseudoscience.
Because companies spend money on pseudoscience doesn't serve as validation of the pseudoscience.
No-one said it did. However, a government using a technique for 25 years plus DOES indicate they think there is 'worth' in it. You cannot argue with that because it is fact.
I am sure you have said in the past something like, one scientific opinion does not make it a certainty. Some scientists just dont accept woo, and they will go to their death still not accepting it, yet others are happy to study it using proper scientific methods and procedures.
As I said before, if the authorities want people to believe they have closed down a project, you move it to the private sector and you issue a scientific report people like you can point to to discredit the science behind it.
Why are you trying so hard to convince us there is no basis for these techniques when the evidence (from military use and other scientific findings) are enough (25 years of usage) to convice the military and governemnt agencies to use it for their own purposes in MANY COUNTRIES not just the US.
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