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Old 07-31-2018, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Internet based news and straight stories are a contradiction in terms! Anyways...

Your articles don't conclude with any great mystery and the conclusion from both is still the same - it went down in the Southern Indian Ocean.
The problem with the satellite data from Inmarsat is it was never intended to use to locate something. They are just pings. However they are able to make use of it to give it a broad arch of location. Your article says it conflicts with drift analysis but as the article says the drift analysis is just worthless, particularly when debris washed up over a number of locations - the error rate would just be too great. Nevertheless that drift analysis still says the Southern Indian ocean.

Like I said we know what happened, we know HOW it was done, we just don't know the WHY.
If the plane is in the Southern Indian Ocean, it would be found in the Southern Indian Ocean. That is a no brainier ... I have not followed this story, but as I recall, there were no distress calls from the pilot. In fact, there was nothing. The plane fell off the radar. There was no one that made a cell phone call to family, nothing ... it just disappeared.

People are always looking for ways in which to make a buck, finding washed up debris that may or may not have anything to do with MH370 is one.
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Old 07-31-2018, 08:17 PM
 
14,027 posts, read 20,248,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
If the plane is in the Southern Indian Ocean, it would be found in the Southern Indian Ocean. That is a no brainier ... I have not followed this story, but as I recall, there were no distress calls from the pilot. In fact, there was nothing. The plane fell off the radar. There was no one that made a cell phone call to family, nothing ... it just disappeared.

People are always looking for ways in which to make a buck, finding washed up debris that may or may not have anything to do with MH370 is one.
I don't want to be insulting, but your response shows extraordinary lack of knowledge of this disaster. You didn't follow the story so perhaps you need to research and discuss from a point of awareness, nothing wrong in that. But come back so we can discuss logical points of dispute. Anyways:

It's actually a "no-brainer" on why the aircraft has not been found. I mean are you serious? Do you know the tens of thousands of square miles that are subject to the search? The technology simply does not exist to map out the ocean floor to cover this entire space quickly so they did a painstaking and extremely expensive grid search pattern with ships simply going back and forth at 15 MPH or so covering a swath of a few hundred yards or so. This is deep ocean, at that depth it's not a perfect science. It takes ships 2 days to even get to the search sights. Hampering these efforts is that originally they got the locations wrong where they thought the plane went down until the satellite data was released. Maybe they are still wrong on the supposed sites, they only had resources to look at the most likely areas.

No distress calls from pilot - well obviously if the pilot did a suicide run he would not call in a distress. I think the report shows someone disabled the communication on the flight - pilot, co-pilot, hijacker...chose your theory.

Plane fell off the radar - incorrect. It didn't "fall off the radar" at all. It simply flew off the range of the radars in use.

Cell phones - You do know that cell phones only have a range of a few miles right? The flight was traveling at about 30,000 feet. Cell phones would not work, particularly when it was over ocean. Regardless, I suspect the pilot turned off the oxygen supply and the passengers and crew died from asphyxia long before the flight crashed.

Last edited by Dd714; 07-31-2018 at 08:27 PM..
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Old 07-31-2018, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
11,661 posts, read 5,377,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
I don't want to be insulting, but your response shows extraordinary lack of knowledge of this disaster. You didn't follow the story so perhaps you need to research and discuss from a point of awareness, nothing wrong in that. But come back so we can discuss logical points of dispute. Anyways:

It's actually a "no-brainer" on why the aircraft has not been found. I mean are you serious? Do you know the tens of thousands of square miles that are subject to the search? The technology simply does not exist to map out the ocean floor to cover this entire space quickly so they did a painstaking and extremely expensive grid search pattern with ships simply going back and forth at 15 MPH or so covering a swath of a few hundred yards or so. This is deep ocean, at that depth it's not a perfect science. It takes ships 2 days to even get to the search sights. Hampering these efforts is that originally they got the locations wrong where they thought the plane went down until the satellite data was released. Maybe they are still wrong on the supposed sites, they only had resources to look at the most likely areas.

No distress calls from pilot - well obviously if the pilot did a suicide run he would not call in a distress. I think the report shows someone disabled the communication on the flight - pilot, co-pilot, hijacker...chose your theory.

Plane fell off the radar - incorrect. It didn't "fall off the radar" at all. It simply flew off the range of the radars in use.

Cell phones - You do know that cell phones only have a range of a few miles right? The flight was traveling at about 30,000 feet. Cell phones would not work, particularly when it was over ocean. Regardless, I suspect the pilot turned off the oxygen supply and the passengers and crew died from asphyxia long before the flight crashed.
If they can find a ship, they can find a plane in the Southern Indian Ocean.



The rest you have there are theories.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:41 PM
 
14,027 posts, read 20,248,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
If they can find a ship, they can find a plane in the Southern Indian Ocean.



The rest you have there are theories.
Dude what are you even talking about? You aren't making sense here. You are comparing an ancient ship found by accident by fishermen off the coast, something that you can scuba dive to, to a plane lost in the middle of the southern Indian ocean. They aren't looking for anything in fact. Did you simply do some google search and link the first thing that popped up? I mean there is no feasible or even remote comparison, correlation, or relevance to this topic here.

And what I posted is not theories:
-the range of cell phone calls is not a theory,
-the radar reports are not a theory,
-the fact that it went down in the Southern Indian ocean is not a theory because satellite data gave us that information,
-I believe the disabling of communications is not a theory (have to check on that) because the communication handshakes could not be achieved,
-the technology in use to find the plane, essentially mapping the ocean floor, is not a theory.
All these are facts supported by hard data.

The "why" is a subject of the debate. For instance pilot suicide IS the leading theory. We just don't know for sure.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:43 PM
 
3,482 posts, read 3,230,011 times
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Taking a trip down posting memory lane, this tidbit in the news made me recall some other salient points, one being the Boeing 777 spec data had shown remote flying capability when I posted this in March of 2014. The feature was content at that time which I referenced its location on the spec data. Now the Boeing 777 link makes no reference to it. Guess they simply had it up there for public consumption in error and corrected it sometime after or removed other 'not for public consumption' specifications.

//www.city-data.com/forum/aviat...l#post33910914

Interesting how information 'changes' over time. As references to the 20 Free Scale Semiconductor passengers. Free Scale semiconductor is a defense contractor which specializes in .....(drum roll please) Electronic Counter Measures: Radar interference / target modification. It is the same tech that the Israelis used to shutdown Syria's communication network:
How Israel Spoofed Syria's Air Defense System | Danger Room | Wired.com
Sort of like playing 'marionette' with your 'enemies' electronic systems.

Don't know or claim to know exactly what happened, and yes, I know Occam's Razor simplest answer is likeliest,.... but from past experience in major incidents of note, the things glossed over or immediately downplayed by the mass media remind me of the A. C. Doyle story of the Dog that didn't bark.

Sort of like the TWA Flight 800 July 17, 1996, 'accident', where the 200 plus eyewitness reports from people on Long Island including helicopter and airplane pilot who saw something rise up toward the plane like a missile are dismissed, AND, the US Navy (conveniently in the area conducting 'exercises') - takes over the investigation in place of the US Coast Guard counter to standard protocol. Nothing to see here, go back to bed America....
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:14 PM
 
Location: PRC
4,519 posts, read 4,011,159 times
Reputation: 4035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
One of the original theories, was that it was a hijacking attempt, because there were one or two Uighur passengers, who had been discovered to be traveling on false passports.
NO, this is incorrect. The passenger nationalities are in the report and it seems that the people travelling on false passports were IRANIAN.

In the report,
* Page 139 has debris details, pictures, and description. Only 2 pieces are CONFIRMED as coming from the aircraft, and some others(8) are "highly likely".
* Page 262 mentions one Italian and one Austrian were travelling on stolen passports and were Iranian.
* At 35,000 feet < 1 minute of conscoiusness is available if depresurisation occurs. If the oxygen masks did not fall down properly, it would have been difficult at that altitude. The oxygen lasts for 10-15 minutes and is a chemical release system (not an O2 canister)
* There is no stress noticed in the voices of the Pilot and First Officer and I believe if you were going to kill a load of people you would have some stress which would show on analysis of the voice tapes
* The largest barnacles on the debris confirmed by the French were said to be 15/16 months old and the debris piece was discovered in July 2015 so technically it is possible this could have been part of the MH370 wreckage.
* There were missing X-ray security checks for the lithium batteries and the mangosteens in the cargo and either could easily have contained some other cargo. Only a visual check was done.

As I said in a post on page 1 in my opinion there is an enormous liklihood of the guys from Silicon Valley being the target and if the pilot was to blame for suicide, then he would have had stress in his voice.

So, my bet of your paycheck rstevens62 is for Mossad or CIA involvement.
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Old 08-01-2018, 02:56 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
11,661 posts, read 5,377,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Dude what are you even talking about? You aren't making sense here. You are comparing an ancient ship found by accident by fishermen off the coast, something that you can scuba dive to, to a plane lost in the middle of the southern Indian ocean. They aren't looking for anything in fact. Did you simply do some google search and link the first thing that popped up? I mean there is no feasible or even remote comparison, correlation, or relevance to this topic here.

And what I posted is not theories:
-the range of cell phone calls is not a theory,
-the radar reports are not a theory,
-the fact that it went down in the Southern Indian ocean is not a theory because satellite data gave us that information,
-I believe the disabling of communications is not a theory (have to check on that) because the communication handshakes could not be achieved,
-the technology in use to find the plane, essentially mapping the ocean floor, is not a theory.
All these are facts supported by hard data.

The "why" is a subject of the debate. For instance pilot suicide IS the leading theory. We just don't know for sure.
More of the same stuff and yes I did ... because you said, they know where it went down. I'm like if they know that, then go get it. ~ i shake my head ~ btw: Archeologist have done some explorations, but excavations are expense and there are legal issues as well. I found a paper written up, it was informative.

MH370 map: Where could MH370 be? Latest radar and debris maps of Malaysia Airlines flight

"Conspiracy theories ranging from a possible hijack to a pilot suicide have been offered as to why MH370 veered thousands of miles off course before crashing into the sea."

Flight 370 Mystery: How Can a Jetliner Drop Off the Radar?
Quote:
Radar facilities are based on land, and each one has a range of about 200 miles (320 kilometers), McGuirk said. So passenger jets on transoceanic flights do go off the radar map for a period of time — but that doesn't mean nobody's keeping tabs on them.
<snip>
Commercial jets can also fall off the map briefly when they fly at low altitudes because radar relies on line-of-sight contact. Mountains and other landforms can block the signals going to and from the closest radar stations, as can the curvature of the Earth.

As a result, low-flying jets can be tough to track continuously, especially if their transponders are disabled — a fact that terrorists took advantage of on 9/11. [9/11 Science: 10 Ways Terrorist Attacks Rocked America]

"The first thing that many of the hijackers did [on 9/11] was turn off the transponder," McGuirk said. "Once they turned off the transponders, then they turned the aircraft back toward whatever their target was."

Someone who wanted to steal the Malaysia Airlines jet could theoretically shut off the transponder and dip down to an altitude of 5,000 feet (about 1,520 meters) or so, he added, while cautioning how far-fetched that scenario is. (my bold)
So since it didn't drop off the radar, they must know where it is ... since why is the only subject up for debate.
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Old 08-01-2018, 06:35 AM
 
14,027 posts, read 20,248,369 times
Reputation: 23566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
More of the same stuff and yes I did ... because you said, they know where it went down. I'm like if they know that, then go get it. ~ i shake my head ~ btw: Archeologist have done some explorations, but excavations are expense and there are legal issues as well. I found a paper written up, it was informative.

MH370 map: Where could MH370 be? Latest radar and debris maps of Malaysia Airlines flight

"Conspiracy theories ranging from a possible hijack to a pilot suicide have been offered as to why MH370 veered thousands of miles off course before crashing into the sea."

Flight 370 Mystery: How Can a Jetliner Drop Off the Radar?
So since it didn't drop off the radar, they must know where it is ... since why is the only subject up for debate.
Once again, it never 'dropped off the radar'. You have to be careful of any news reports published soon after the crash or disappearance because much of it is wrong as the media were jumping on theories or unsubstantiated reports.
I can't remember if the final conclusion is that someone at the controls dropped down to 5,000 feet, I don't think that happened. But indeed, the pilot, or someone, turned off the transponder. He also cleverly zig-zagged into and out of country airspace so that he would not be tracked. That's not the same as dropping off the radar, even without the transponder it would still appear as long as it was in range, but just be unidentified. Regardless, military radar that was much more sophisticated than traffic control radar kept track of the flight until he went into the Indian Ocean.

Last edited by Dd714; 08-01-2018 at 06:45 AM..
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Old 08-01-2018, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Holly Springs, NC
3,540 posts, read 1,578,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
If they can find a ship, they can find a plane in the Southern Indian Ocean.



The rest you have there are theories.

Hahahaha, wait did you just use an article that says "off the coast" to prove your point? They literally knew where the ancient harbor was.

Have you seen the entirety of the Indian Ocean?

Sure, there is the last known ping but that plane was still moving. Nobody knows if it broke up upon crashing and where the final resting place is (not everything sinks straight down - reference Titanic).
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Old 08-01-2018, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Holly Springs, NC
3,540 posts, read 1,578,526 times
Reputation: 4618
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
NO, this is incorrect. The passenger nationalities are in the report and it seems that the people travelling on false passports were IRANIAN.

In the report,
* Page 139 has debris details, pictures, and description. Only 2 pieces are CONFIRMED as coming from the aircraft, and some others(8) are "highly likely".
* Page 262 mentions one Italian and one Austrian were travelling on stolen passports and were Iranian.
* At 35,000 feet < 1 minute of conscoiusness is available if depresurisation occurs. If the oxygen masks did not fall down properly, it would have been difficult at that altitude. The oxygen lasts for 10-15 minutes and is a chemical release system (not an O2 canister)
* There is no stress noticed in the voices of the Pilot and First Officer and I believe if you were going to kill a load of people you would have some stress which would show on analysis of the voice tapes
* The largest barnacles on the debris confirmed by the French were said to be 15/16 months old and the debris piece was discovered in July 2015 so technically it is possible this could have been part of the MH370 wreckage.
* There were missing X-ray security checks for the lithium batteries and the mangosteens in the cargo and either could easily have contained some other cargo. Only a visual check was done.

As I said in a post on page 1 in my opinion there is an enormous liklihood of the guys from Silicon Valley being the target and if the pilot was to blame for suicide, then he would have had stress in his voice.

So, my bet of your paycheck rstevens62 is for Mossad or CIA involvement.
You are doing a disservice by slipping your "opinion" in the middle of factual statements. Are you qualified to determine the level of stress in someone's voice?

For reference, here is a real-world stressful scenario. Please let me know where you hear stress from the pilot:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLFZTzR5u84

Why is it that conspiracy theorists are "experts" on every subject? Avionics, psychology, aerodynamics, flight operations, government agencies...and so on. It must get tiring.
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