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Old 12-11-2019, 04:37 PM
 
2,249 posts, read 673,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
Nobody is saying that there is not life on other planets. People are saying that there is no evidence that intelligent extraterrestrial life has visited earth during the time frame humans have been here.



This is one of the dishonest arguments people use to forward this argument but it is a straw man.
Tell that to the former fighter pilots of the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group. Now that we've established the high probability of extraterrestrial life on at least some of the tens of billions of Earth-like planets the likelihood of those capable of reaching planet Earth having technology far in advance of our is also highly probable. With capabilities like those the Nimitz pilots witnessed you're not likely to capture any of them anytime soon.
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Old 12-11-2019, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,329 posts, read 14,997,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathlete View Post
Tell that to the former fighter pilots of the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group. Now that we've established the high probability of extraterrestrial life on at least some of the tens of billions of Earth-like planets the likelihood of those capable of reaching planet Earth having technology far in advance of our is also highly probable. With capabilities like those the Nimitz pilots witnessed you're not likely to capture any of them anytime soon.
There is a big difference between the high probability of life on other planets and extraterrestrials here on Earth. There is a lot of space in between us and them. We are busy listening to any signals coming from deep space and have not had a lot of luck. Of course those signals could take many years to reach us and civilizations could rise and fall before we would ever hear our first proof of intelligent life.

Regardless of the 'encounter' all we know is that the encounter is of unknown origin. It could be a glitch in our electronics or something else. Of course we should never say never; but we have nothing to determine if anything ever visited us or who visited us. We need a lot more to prove the existence of life on other planets.

Don't forget that all of the major powers are currently working of faster weapons of war. We are also working on any technology that could confuse or deceive our enemies. It might even be possible that we would try a new technology on our own forces to see how they would react?
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Old 12-12-2019, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,170 posts, read 3,812,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathlete View Post
Tell that to the former fighter pilots of the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group.
What the actual ****? This makes no sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathlete View Post

Now that we've established the high probability of extraterrestrial life on at least some of the tens of billions of Earth-like planets the likelihood of those capable of reaching planet Earth having technology far in advance of our is also highly probable.
No, there are a lot more variables. Yes, it is highly likely there is extra terrestrial life out there. Does that mean that it has the ability to travel to earth? No. Does that mean that they would have the desire to visit earth? No. Does that mean that there have not been events that snuff out this life before it can travel to Earth? No.



You are looking at two variables. Number of planets and distance. But there is another. TIME. What if intelligent extraterrestrial life visited earth but it was 3 billion years ago? Maybe they just left and have no interest in returning? Earth may also have a lead on 90% of the galaxy:


https://www.space.com/30889-earth-bl...-solution.html



Extraterrestrial life could be anything from bacteria to super intelligent beings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathlete View Post
With capabilities like those the Nimitz pilots witnessed you're not likely to capture any of them anytime soon.
There is no reason to think that what the Nimitz pilots witnessed was intelligent extra terrestrial life.



People are fallible. There are several reasonable explanations to that specific incident as well:


https://skepticalinquirer.org/2018/0...edy_of_errors/


https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/21/opini...oln/index.html


https://www.businessinsider.com/ufo-...nt-care-2018-1


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/he...avy-2019-10-15


Look, I get it, you saw a few for profit TV shows and now believe what they were selling. No biggie. But people that are seriously interested in finding intelligent extraterrestrial life do not see an encounter like the Nimitz one as an ending of a search, they see it as a start of a search. Unfortunately the search hit a dead end.
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:26 AM
 
23,857 posts, read 7,617,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
There is a big difference between the high probability of life on other planets and extraterrestrials here on Earth. There is a lot of space in between us and them. We are busy listening to any signals coming from deep space and have not had a lot of luck. Of course those signals could take many years to reach us and civilizations could rise and fall before we would ever hear our first proof of intelligent life.

Regardless of the 'encounter' all we know is that the encounter is of unknown origin. It could be a glitch in our electronics or something else. Of course we should never say never; but we have nothing to determine if anything ever visited us or who visited us. We need a lot more to prove the existence of life on other planets.

Don't forget that all of the major powers are currently working of faster weapons of war. We are also working on any technology that could confuse or deceive our enemies. It might even be possible that we would try a new technology on our own forces to see how they would react?
The real problem here...we dont really know WHAT our govt knows, when it comes to this topic, we do know there is alot of top secret information pertaining to UFOs/ UAPs, and it appears this all started in the late 40s, early 50s.


I think its safe to say, NO OTHER country has 'leap-frogged' the US in aircraft technology, the flight characteristics of these UAPs describe a technology that, if did exist somewhere, it would be everywhere very quickly (as it would be impossible to suppress this kind of discovery/invention).


Also consider the extreme level of security employed at places where experimental aircraft are designed and built (like Area 51), they will not let civilians even get close to the base...and for good reason, they are trying to keep the experimental aircraft secret, so the information doesnt fall into the wrong hands...seeing how they go to these great lengths to hide these aircraft, how much sense would it make for them to fly experimental aircraft over heavily populated areas, or even govt bases or locations?
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:33 AM
 
23,857 posts, read 7,617,808 times
Reputation: 13224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
What the actual ****? This makes no sense.


No, there are a lot more variables. Yes, it is highly likely there is extra terrestrial life out there. Does that mean that it has the ability to travel to earth? No. Does that mean that they would have the desire to visit earth? No. Does that mean that there have not been events that snuff out this life before it can travel to Earth? No.



You are looking at two variables. Number of planets and distance. But there is another. TIME. What if intelligent extraterrestrial life visited earth but it was 3 billion years ago? Maybe they just left and have no interest in returning? Earth may also have a lead on 90% of the galaxy:


https://www.space.com/30889-earth-bl...-solution.html



Extraterrestrial life could be anything from bacteria to super intelligent beings.


There is no reason to think that what the Nimitz pilots witnessed was intelligent extra terrestrial life.



People are fallible. There are several reasonable explanations to that specific incident as well:


https://skepticalinquirer.org/2018/0...edy_of_errors/


https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/21/opini...oln/index.html


https://www.businessinsider.com/ufo-...nt-care-2018-1


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/he...avy-2019-10-15


Look, I get it, you saw a few for profit TV shows and now believe what they were selling. No biggie. But people that are seriously interested in finding intelligent extraterrestrial life do not see an encounter like the Nimitz one as an ending of a search, they see it as a start of a search. Unfortunately the search hit a dead end.
Its more likely that these aircraft being seen and reported come from an 'ultraterrestrial' origin (not extraterrestrial).


Our history suggests that these things have been here for a very long time, there are similar reports going back 1000s of years, times BEFORE the aircraft or even balloons were invented, and according to the witnesses, the behavior, shape of the crafts, and flight characteristics are almost identical to modern reports.
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,170 posts, read 3,812,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
The real problem here...we dont really know WHAT our govt knows, when it comes to this topic, we do know there is alot of top secret information pertaining to UFOs/ UAPs, and it appears this all started in the late 40s, early 50s.
So? Who cares about "what our government knows"? The government is not a single monolith. It is comprised of individuals, many with conflicting desires, goals and ethics. I doubt any secret could be held so long.


The traitor Edward Snowden even looked and found nothing:


https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/23/us/ed...rnd/index.html


So please just stick to actual facts and evidence of intelligent extraterrestrials visiting earth and not what you think the evidence should be. Without evidence you are discussing a believe system and that is not this forum. Perhaps take it to religion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I think its safe to say, NO OTHER country has 'leap-frogged' the US in aircraft technology, the flight characteristics of these UAPs describe a technology that, if did exist somewhere, it would be everywhere very quickly (as it would be impossible to suppress this kind of discovery/invention).
You mean impossible like the SR71 being kept secret for decades?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Also consider the extreme level of security employed at places where experimental aircraft are designed and built (like Area 51), they will not let civilians even get close to the base...and for good reason, they are trying to keep the experimental aircraft secret, so the information doesnt fall into the wrong hands...seeing how they go to these great lengths to hide these aircraft, how much sense would it make for them to fly experimental aircraft over heavily populated areas, or even govt bases or locations?
Again, this is not evidence of intelligent extraterrestrials visiting earth. This forum is for "Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal" not totally and expected actions of a government that has been dragged into two world wars in a little over a century.
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,170 posts, read 3,812,433 times
Reputation: 6331
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Its more likely that these aircraft being seen and reported come from an 'ultraterrestrial' origin (not extraterrestrial).
So you were wrong before but this time you are right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Our history suggests that these things have been here for a very long time, there are similar reports going back 1000s of years, times BEFORE the aircraft or even balloons were invented, and according to the witnesses, the behavior, shape of the crafts, and flight characteristics are almost identical to modern reports.
Well since the planet is very similar, humans are very similar, the flora and fauna are very similar and weather is somewhat similar why should people 1,000 years ago not make mistakes, be freaked out about something in the sky or have mental instability?



Again none of this is not proof of intelligent ultraterrestrial or extraterrestrial visitation? There are much simpler explanations. As a matter of fact most of what Ancient Aliens says is bull**** and they know it. It is entertainment.
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Old 12-12-2019, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,329 posts, read 14,997,066 times
Reputation: 14156
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
The real problem here...we dont really know WHAT our govt knows, when it comes to this topic, we do know there is alot of top secret information pertaining to UFOs/ UAPs, and it appears this all started in the late 40s, early 50s.


I think its safe to say, NO OTHER country has 'leap-frogged' the US in aircraft technology, the flight characteristics of these UAPs describe a technology that, if did exist somewhere, it would be everywhere very quickly (as it would be impossible to suppress this kind of discovery/invention).


Also consider the extreme level of security employed at places where experimental aircraft are designed and built (like Area 51), they will not let civilians even get close to the base...and for good reason, they are trying to keep the experimental aircraft secret, so the information doesnt fall into the wrong hands...seeing how they go to these great lengths to hide these aircraft, how much sense would it make for them to fly experimental aircraft over heavily populated areas, or even govt bases or locations?
Hopefully we will always keep it that way. Once you or we know what our government knows then our enemies also know. I am more afraid that we do know what our government knows and nothing will save us should the next world war ever break out! It is comforting to think that our government is holding out on us and potential enemies so some secret technology will save us as hypersonic ballistic missiles are headed in our direction and we have only minutes to live!

For some strange reason you want to know everything and that everything could give our enemies the information they need for a successful first strike. We have think tanks and facilities around our Country that are working on the technology of the future; they are not all based in area 51. I hope that they have succeeded.

I also understand that some of this new technology brings with it financial secrecy and that is why we also have watchdog groups within our government. However there will always be controversy about whether we are spending too much or not enough.
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:47 PM
 
23,857 posts, read 7,617,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
From this link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kary_Mullis) I quote: "September 1994 issue of California Monthly, Mullis said, "Back in the 1960s and early '70s I took plenty of LSD. A lot of people were doing that in Berkeley back then. And I found it to be a mind-opening experience. It was certainly much more important than any courses I ever took." So maybe it did help him in his research; but LSD is a hallucinogen. So do we know if his claims are based on science or the effects of a hallucinogenic drug?

As far as what I find believable; I am looking for answers instead of accepting the word of others that are getting paid for their information. People get paid for their books, lectures, appearances, and it takes money to maintain these websites. I have a job that is not related to any of this and I also have pensions; I am not looking for money - only the truth.
I did ALOT of LSD in my late teens and early 20s, the group of friends I was running with at that time, were hard partiers, we were doing 10 and 15 hit strips almost every day of white window pane LSD (that was VERY strong). We got it at a Grateful Dead show in Deerfield Indiana in 1992, we saw it dipped and it was handed to us 'wet'!


It was by far the strongest acid any of us had ever done...but what many people do not understand about LSD, the hallucinogens are not really that great, its not like you see things that are not there, pink elephants walking down the street or anything, its more of a mental thing, you do see visual tracers, but its nothing like seeing something that isnt there...in other words, it would be impossible to 'hallucinate' seeing a UFO in the air while on acid, the visuals are not like that.


Have you ever read about Kary Mullis's encounter with beings, he says, looked like they had 'raccoon' eyes? its an interesting read, he admits he would like to study them, but he also recognizes its impossible to do so (because there is no way to control the experiment, cannot make them show up and take part).

Last edited by rstevens62; 12-12-2019 at 10:56 PM..
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Old 12-13-2019, 05:15 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,329 posts, read 14,997,066 times
Reputation: 14156
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I did ALOT of LSD in my late teens and early 20s, the group of friends I was running with at that time, were hard partiers, we were doing 10 and 15 hit strips almost every day of white window pane LSD (that was VERY strong). We got it at a Grateful Dead show in Deerfield Indiana in 1992, we saw it dipped and it was handed to us 'wet'!


It was by far the strongest acid any of us had ever done...but what many people do not understand about LSD, the hallucinogens are not really that great, its not like you see things that are not there, pink elephants walking down the street or anything, its more of a mental thing, you do see visual tracers, but its nothing like seeing something that isnt there...in other words, it would be impossible to 'hallucinate' seeing a UFO in the air while on acid, the visuals are not like that.


Have you ever read about Kary Mullis's encounter with beings, he says, looked like they had 'raccoon' eyes? its an interesting read, he admits he would like to study them, but he also recognizes its impossible to do so (because there is no way to control the experiment, cannot make them show up and take part).
Many of the people that I have encountered over the years, that do drugs, do not stop at just one drug. They would take almost anything that was offered to them. There is always that quest for stronger stuff and it is impossible to say what the next one takes or did not take. Now we have your story about how you took LSD; but you even admit to taking stronger 'stuff'. How are we supposed to make sense out of statement from people on mind altering drugs?

If you just Google how many Americans suffer from mental problems you will get this answer: "An estimated 26% of Americans ages 18 and older -- about 1 in 4 adults -- suffers from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year." Toss that in with all of the people taking hallucinogenic drugs. Then we also have a certain number of people that simply lie for attention. Facts are the only thing that we can base our opinions on. This is a forum and anybody can say they saw anything; to prove it is another story.
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