I find it worth reading (again) (light, spirits)

[CALGUY]

Quite a few years ago, I purchased the spirit's book by Alan Kardec.
I have read it through, and once again, stared reading it last night.
It is amazing how true to (our) lives this book is.
With each new read, I get a much better understanding of spirits, their world, and best, and most important of all, their purpose.

I have often stated on this, and other forums, that this is the one book, all who are interested in spirits, and the true meaning of the human existence, should read.
Here is the link to the free pdf file.
http://ssbaltimore.org/resources/e-b...irits-book.pdf


Bob.

[greglovesoldtrucks]

I started reading the book the first time the link was posted, and I must say for the person that is not at least somewhat "versed" in their knowledge of spirituality, the book will be a hard read for them.

I have had "paranormal" experiences, read and studied the KJV Holy Bible, and have heard the testimonies of some very trustworthy people about their PE's. This book linked above has in it, the answers to ones "spiritual" questions that most mortal minded people of very high intellect, cannot answer.

And I am still reading the book now, as time permits. My old brain is having a bit of a hard time while using my reading comprehension skills though. The books text and grammatical formatting gets a bit taxing for me to comprehend.

I think I have about worn out my internet Bing dictionary, while highlighting and getting the definition of the words used in the book, that I do not know the meaning of them. When I complete the book, I would like to come back to this thread and do a casual Q and A on it ?

[CALGUY]

I will look forward to that.
Some of the wording can be a bit confusing, but if you look at them in the context in which they are spoken, their meaning is quite clear.
The first 62 pages, I feel are more or less just a synopsis of the author, and how the information was compiled.
Once you get into the question/answer sections, I find it quite clear.
The footnotes help in explaining what a particular answer from a spirit might be.


Bob.

[greglovesoldtrucks]

I am now at over mid-point on the "spirits" book and I do not think that I will finish it. So now I'll write my book in response.

I know of no topics more controversial or volatile, than religion or politics. And this book has brought up some very controversial points with me. Being that I am a "believer" in Christ and His word, and actually had a time in my life where I personally experienced the "Fruit of the Holy Spirit" while studying my Mom's old KJV Bible, I am not one that is reading this book about "spirits" with total ignorance of the topic.

My 100% authority for the study of "spiritualism" is the KJV Bible. Because IMO, Jesus mission and his teachings were not to save mans physical being, but his spiritual being. I will give this book's author credit for his endeavors and study in to the realm of "spiritualism". And I have found thus far, his book answers a LOT of questions very plainly that have baffled me about what we call the "paranormal". But my conscience or "inner being" so to speak, is making me uneasy with this books teachings.

Not because they may be totally false or misleading, but because the information in the book is really MORE than a mere human being minds...needs to know. And IMO, this is why for the passed centuries that mankind's mental, moral, and "spiritual" knowledge has been acquired from their religion or faith... of that persons choice. The book is adverse at least for me, on how the "spirits" state that God does His works.

Just a few that is troubling to me at least, as they do read to make sense but are very troubling to a persons normal state of mind. Such as...

How a person's personality or character traits (good, bad, or evil) came about from the manipulation of "spirits" needing higher development. While in their varying stages of development they have to be incarnated in to many human bodies over time, in order for them to get to the highest level...to become a pure spirit. At which in the state of being a pure spirit they can be with God in his domain...or close. Which means no more incarnations back in to earthy human bodies ...for them

And these spirits, while still in their development stages while needing to advance themselves, were incarnated by God's choice...in to a newborn. And that newborn then while growing up, needs to advance themselves morally and spiritually to higher levels. .. or they may even never advance and stay in a poor spiritual state of being.

And that a newborn's death or horrible afflictions or disease that it was born with, can even be attributed to God's choice to make that infants parents "spiritual" development higher, by having them suffer through grief. Because the way I understand the teachings in this book, there is NOTHING that happens to a human being during their lifetime...that did not come about as the result of God's Hand in it.

And to this I say, I do not know. So IMO, I am going to say that a person that has had ANY religious upbringing in the realm of Christianity, is going to find this OP's book...unsettling to them. The "Spirits" book states many times where their position coincides with some of the Scriptures, that are written in our Holy Bibles.

And another one of many troubling teachings in this book, is that we have a spirit(s) residing in or around us every minute of our life. This also MAY be true, but I hope the spirit(s) understand to not enter the bathroom or our bedrooms with us.
,
So I am going back to the simpler version of what I learned about man's "spirit" from my old KJV Bible. Because to me, it is the best instruction manual available that gets man from point A to B spiritually. And doing so, while it being a LOT simpler to comprehend than what this book is representing.

According to this book, be it a FACT or just an Occult in vast writings... we human beings are living our lives daily with a simple and ignorant, good or bad, or possibly a evil spirit that was incarnated in to us as a newborn. And that our spirit was "hand picked" and incarnated in to us as a infant, from God. Just so it will to go through MANY life times of reincarnation to develop itself in to the highest state of spiritual purity. When it reaches "purity" it can then return back to its intended state (back with God)

In my opinion, man does NOT have the mental capacity to comprehend such matters as this books content. And for one to live with these ideologies that are in this book, IMO would actually serve to turn mankind...against God. Because the writings in the book state that NOTHING happens to a human being nor a infant/child...that is not an act so desired by God. Wow....

I believe that God sent his Son, and with his sacrifice and the writing of the Prophets and Disciple's, just that we have within our grasp OUR choice of learning about our destiny as "spirits" . And these writings (Scripture's) keep it simple for a mans brain to comprehend on what one has to do while in the flesh, to live eternally in Spirit.

And to do this IMO, one needs to just live their lives daily while adhering to the Ten C's, turn their life over to Christ and trust in Him for their Salvation, then try to sin no more. And if this is done, when one takes their last breath..... it will all be in His hands what happens to their "spirit". And Christ's promise was to mankind, was that if one does the aforementioned, they will be just fine while in "spirit" ….for eternity.

Because when I see sick, dying, infants or abused children, mentally ill and suffering human beings in person, or go to a newborn infant's funeral while trying to console the grieving parents.... one has best not tell me their infants death was, " Gods Will ". As they will probably not like my reply. JMO

[CALGUY]

I am not going to quote what you posted, there is no need.
I will say however, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, though I don't agree with it, especially your thinking that God is responsible for all.

Had you read the book, and absorbed it's clear message, you would have understood God gave the spirits free will.
It is they, and only they that have control of the lives they incarnate into.
It is they that know forehand what being they will incarnate into, and the sole purpose of that incarnation, not God.

You don't seem to understand that humans are the tool by which the spirits elevate themselves to the purity they desire.
You stated in your post about believing the KJV, and that is your choice, but one very important thing you should know, and understand is, the people writing that, were the "tool" of the spirit with in them.
Nothing in our existence happens without the spirit with in each of us, guiding us.
It is the spirits that have free will, not we humans.

You mentioned people being afflicted, and you blamed God for that.
Not you, not I, or anyone else can know how, or why God would create these types of situations for people to endure.
We can only speculate, but I believe these afflicted people are used as a penance by a spirit to suffer in an effort to learn and endure, so that they can climb that elusive ladder to ultimate purity.

Other that the word of God, and the thoughts and actions of spirits, the rest of existence is clouded in mystery, that most are not equipped to know.
I suppose many would ask, where do we get the word of God, certainly not from God directly?
Spirits are responsible for spreading the word of God, and they have done that for centuries.
The KJV is a prime example.
Written by humans, guided by spirits.

In life, we believe we humans are the superior existence, when in reality, we are nothing more than a means for spirits to gain ultimate purity.
When we speak, we speak their thoughts.
We act on something, we are doing the spirits bidding.
Nothing in the bible, or for that matter( the spirits book) would never have come into existence , without the spirits incarnated with in people.
They are the reason for our being, and it has, and always will be that way.

I think you, and many, many others would do well to think of a simple adage, and apply it to life.
The old adage, who came first, the chicken or the egg?
When speaking of the human existence, and spirit existence, undoubtedly, the spirit came first.

One thing I have learned through the years I have been involved with the study of spirits is, like humans, they have differences of opinion, and beliefs.
The best, and most accurate way to decipher what is, and isn't fact, is to measure the spiritual opinions by our daily existence, and what transpires in our lives.
Only one opinion can be correct regardless of it's origin, be it human, or spirit.
For sure, everything in our existence beyond birth, has been completely choreographed by the spirit with in.

[greglovesoldtrucks]

Your reply to my post above reads as if you CalGuy, may need to read your favorite book again to refresh your memory.

Every contentious point that I made above, I read the text printed in the BOOK as replies (answers) made by the "spirits" to the questions asked of them.

I could go back to the BOOK and cut / paste the text from it and post them in this reply to prove my points. But while doing so, I would most likely would be in violation of CD's copyright rules. So I will bow out of this thread now. And I leave while still standing firmly in my belief, on EVERY word that I posted above whether it was me repeating the "spirits" word or my own beliefs. Cheers....

[CALGUY]

You attitude seems to leave little room for compromise.
Your reply to my post, and your departure from this thread signals to me, and perhaps others reading it, that you have this,"it's my way or the highway" syndrome.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and beliefs.
You want to go on believing what you have stated,that is your prerogative.

For me, the spirits book is 100% correct in all it states, and I back my belief up with events in the human existence that also back up what the spirits have said themselves in that book.


Bob.

[greglovesoldtrucks]

I am going to go back on my word to leave this thread, because upon reviewing my replies again this morning, I see that I have sort of, "disrespected" your thread here CalGuy. My apologies for doing so. So here I go again with another LONG post, while trying to explain my views on this topic about the "Book of Spirits". I will just use the word BOOK rather than posting the longer text of "Book of Spirits" each time.

I stated in my long reply above that the BOOK did answer a LOT of my questions that I had about "spirituality" and what can be deemed to some of us as paranormal experiences. I am NOT disputing ALL of the BOOK's teachings, as I know that every person living has within them a "spirit" or what believers choose instead, to call their "soul".

But as people today living in 2019, we are the offspring of centuries of people that have gained higher educations, in all fields of medicine, theology, psychology, science etc. So people reading this BOOK today, unlike someone reading it in the early 1900's, 1800's 1600's some readers are going to come away with a different point of view on some of the book's teachings.

The BOOK is VAST, with the amount of knowledge that can be learned from it, that we were never taught OUTSIDE of our particular faith or religious beliefs. It is so vast, that for brevity (?) yeah right, I am going to focus on just one small section of the BOOK now.

The following was the way I interpreted the teachings of the "spirits" in the BOOK, that are answering the questions presented to them by the mediums. Here is what I derived from those teachings.

God incarnates these "spirits" in to infants because the spirit uses the human body as a transport mechanism. As the infant lives its life to maturity as a human being it will "elevate" the spirit within them to a higher level of purity by the way THEY choose to live their life, by their own God given Free will. Or for humans with poor or evil spirits within them, they may never elevate to a higher state of being, unless reincarnated again in to another human being.

Once the human body dies, the spirit will leave it and be "recycled" back in to another infant, if it still needs to be elevated in spiritual development to obtain a closer level of "purity". But NO spirit will be left as a low grade, evil sprit nor ever stay the same level. And that ALL spirits through many reincarnations if needed, will be elevated to a more pure state. And that once the spirit obtains this higher level of development of the more/most pure stage spirit can finally stay within the boundaries of God, or if HIGH enough...even with God. And then, the spirit will not have to be incarnated again, unless they want to be to serve for the better good of human beings.

As I reflect back upon my own family members, my siblings, my parents and at the people I have worked and lived around for the passed 58 years, a lot of these spirits teachings in the BOOK make sense to me. How else can one explain why people end up "being" what they are presently or what they are to become ? The BOOK literally answers almost ALL of the mysteries known to mans search for the REASON of our Creation and being.... But, back to reality.

We are living in 2019. If I had a child today, I cannot imagine teaching my child that he/she has within them a "spirit" that was incarnated in to them when they were born. And that whatever my child's present state of physical being may be, whether they have negative afflictions, disease , ugliness, beauty, or plainness ..is because of their "spirits" stage of "development" that is within them. And it will be up to them while growing up, to development their "spirits" stage to a higher level.

Can we agree that if I did tell my child the aforementioned especially one that may have negative afflictions, that now in 2019 that I would have the high probability of making my child a mental cripple for life ?? How is a child supposed to be able to grasp and comprehend such a "teaching" from their parent ?

I will use my own Father now as an example to try to clarify my point here. He was born in 1906 out of wedlock = bastard in those old days. (a situation not even noteworthy today to most) He grew up with a lot of anger inside of him due to the fact, that in those days bastards were often ridiculed by other children and even scorned by their peers. During the Great Depression he married my Mom and over the years had many children. And he and my Mom both while living very hard lives back then, became heavy drinkers.

So what if my Dad's Mother had told him at a young age, that it was "up to him" to elevate the low grade and ignorant spirit that had been incarnated in to him as a newborn ? Or even if she had waited until he was 20 years old and then told him, when he MAY possibly have been mature enough to grasp the concept better ? Would my Dad with this " spirit knowledge" bestowed upon him, REALLY have turned out different ?

I do not think it would have had a positive impact on my Dad, if he had known about "spirit incarnations" and why they happen. Because the FIRST obstacle my Dad would have had to overcome in his young life, was that a "spirit" was incarnated in to him as a newborn, without his choice, that was going to make his life miserable. Miserable at least, until he could change it by his own will and actions.

Now how do the readers here believe this would have worked out for my Dad ? Does one think my Dad would not have been literally overwhelmed by this "knowledge" and simply would have accepted it as his destiny of doom for him ?

But in reality to ME, what WOULD have made a difference in my Dad's life that would have possibly led to him to living a sober and more prosperous life would have been ….the actions of the LIVING people around him in his life. People that could have shown him the love and respect, nurturing and understanding that is essential in order for young minds and bodies to prosper to their best. But no one did, to my understanding of knowing my family history now.

So in the case of my Dad, where were these people around him from 1906 to his old age as he slowly became an alcoholic and an abusive father and husband, with THEIR "higher elevated developed spirits" within THEM...that could have helped my Dad's poor, ignorant incarnated spirit to elevate ?

As I said in my long post above, many things are beyond man's capability to ever have a really good understanding of, so they will be reluctant to even discuss such matters. And this topic IMO, is one of them.

And this is why also IMO, mankind has developed their own version of acquiring the knowledge of how we humans are supposed to live ours lives, and what happens to us after we die. And it can be acquired by learning from many of the religious faiths/denominations they have chosen.

But also, if one is spending their time "communicating" with "spirits" or with the voices from those that have died .. them doing so is entirely their right to do and they can write a book about their knowledge obtained from doing so. But while doing so they should also be cognitive of the fact, what they are doing is NOT, nor ever will be IMO, a universally accepted societal norm. All JMO

[CALGUY]

Interesting post once again, but there are some issues with what you believe, or felt was fact, according to what you read.

First off, humans are NOT responsible for the elevation of any spirit.
It is the elder spirits in the spirit world that determine if a particular spirit is going to be elevated, or stay at the same level.
The spirit is judged on how it handled the life it incarnated into.
It will be judged on what, if anything, it learned in that life.

The paragraph you started with, "We are living in 2019" makes me want to better explain the issue you talked about.
Again, you need to understand that you are only the conduit by which the spirit with in you communicates.
On the same hand, the spirit with in the child is the conduit that receives the message from your spirit, making them both susceptible to communication, and thought between them.
If the child is to absorb information you put forth, it will be it's spirit with in, that makes that decision.
The child would not become an "emotional cripple" as you feel it would,unless the soul with in, was of a weak nature.
I feel you are assuming that a child could not grasp (in 2019) the reality of a soul with in, and you seem to have difficulty in accepting that it is your soul doing the teaching(through you), and the child is accepting that teaching (through it's soul).

I think if you go back into the "book" you will see reference to what the body would be like without a soul.
It would be in a vegetative state, for the soul is what is needed to make the body, and mind function.

Again, I think it is important for all people to understand the purpose of the human existence.
It has one purpose, and one purpose only, and that is a tool for the spirits to enhance THEIR existence.

I am going to quote you here so I can offer a better understanding of what you asked.


"So what if my Dad's Mother had told him at a young age, that it was "up to him" to elevate the low grade and ignorant spirit that had been incarnated in to him as a newborn ? Or even if she had waited until he was 20 years old and then told him, when he MAY possibly have been mature enough to grasp the concept better ? Would my Dad with this " spirit knowledge" bestowed upon him, REALLY have turned out different ?"

I explained this earlier, but I will say it again.
It is not the duty of the human to elevate the soul with in each of us.
Elevation is only done at the time the spirit enters the spirit world, and elevation is accomplished by spirits of higher rank.
If a human's behavior changes(good or bad) it is the soul with in that is responsible for those actions, not the human.

You added comments and had questions concerning your dad, and it again prompts me to try and explain human actions.

You may ask yourself, Why are some people successful, while others are just the opposite?
Why do some turn to artificial, mind altering factions, while others completely abstain?
Why are some people complete jerks in every facet of their lives, while others are a pleasure to be around?
All these, and every other question have but one answer, and that is the spirit(soul) with in every one of us.

It has been often said, "no two people are alike.
The same is true of spirits.
Depending on what they want, and need to learn, is what dictates a spirits actions, and thoughts, but understand, it is the spirit's thoughts and actions being carried out by the human in which it is incarnated.

The last paragraph in your post is absolutely spot on.
Those of us, who make it a practice to "learn" more as humans, are constantly ridiculed by a less than understanding public, when it involves going beyond what is believe to be normal.

Spirits come in all sizes, shapes, and equality of being, and many are here to learn,and benefit, while unfortunately, many are here to cause strife, and confrontation.
It is a wise human that clearly knows the difference.


Bob.

[greglovesoldtrucks]

When a poster is using their iinterpretations of a book's writings, especially when the book of topic is as intense and controversial as the BOOK of topic here is, then what happens...is what that is happening here now.

The BOOK that is the topic for this thread is NOT, like reading the "average" book from the library.

The original text from the BOOK being discussed here needs to be posted at the needed times, to help the reader(s) see WHY the poster came to their stated position or their interpretation of that text.

To do so, requires a cut/copy and paste of the actual text from the BOOK of topic being posted on to this thread. But to do so, it is my understanding of this sites rules... will be a violation.

It is very hard to debate a topic when only the "interpretations" from the poster of what they are reading in a book, is used. At some point for clarification and to diminish confusion, the authentic text from the book being debated NEEDS to be posted, to use as the benchmark for the responders position.

So knowing that I cannot post the BOOK's original text here with my replies, just to show how I got to my understanding of it, I am now respectfully stepping out of this one CALGUY. As your replies are not wrong, and IMO, neither are mine ….totally.