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Old 02-02-2020, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,067 posts, read 3,996,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew View Post
“ how do we know the phenomenon isn't "pretending" to react to the name of Jesus?”

Really?? What would be the motivation of the phenomenon to “pretend” to react to the name of Jesus? Why is that the only thing known to have any impact on stopping an abduction? Shouldn’t that information be made known to people?
Read my comment in context rather than scanning posts for something you can disagree with:

Quote:
which is a theological leap that will only be convincing to those who are from those traditions (how do we know the phenomenon isn't "pretending" to react to the name of Jesus?).
In other words - the comment about pretending represents how someone who is NOT from the video maker's apparent fundamentalist theological position would view the video.

Quote:
You seem willing to believe anything so long as it helps you dismiss the demonic implications of what is occurring.
I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian who goes to church at least twice a week and is involved in ministries, same as the late Fr. Seraphim Rose. I believe at least some of these phenomena are demonic in nature - and I've posted comments to that effect many times in the past in this forum. However, the video is not going to convince anyone who's not a fundamentalist Protestant and shares the video maker's world view. Capisce? If you go looking for people to pick a fight with, guess what you'll find -- people to pick a fight with.
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Old 02-03-2020, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Maine
17,544 posts, read 21,543,571 times
Reputation: 20562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian who goes to church at least twice a week and is involved in ministries, same as the late Fr. Seraphim Rose. I believe at least some of these phenomena are demonic in nature - and I've posted comments to that effect many times in the past in this forum. However, the video is not going to convince anyone who's not a fundamentalist Protestant and shares the video maker's world view. Capisce? If you go looking for people to pick a fight with, guess what you'll find -- people to pick a fight with.
I am Roman Catholic. Vasily is on the right track here.

I don't know what UFOs are. I have seen them three times in my life. Is it possible these sightings and supposed abductions are demonic in nature? I can't rule it out. But neither have I seen any convincing evidence of it.

The same is true of the extraterrestrial explanation. I have yet to see any convincing evidence of an extraterrestrial civilization visiting Earth. But if they land on the roof of the U.N. tomorrow and announce themselves to the world, it will in no way cause my Faith to crumble. I see no inherent conflict between Faith and Reason. The fundamentalists may have some 'splainin' to do, but that's one reason I'm not a fundamentalist.
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Old 02-03-2020, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
15,607 posts, read 12,522,189 times
Reputation: 11757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I am Roman Catholic. Vasily is on the right track here.

I don't know what UFOs are. I have seen them three times in my life. Is it possible these sightings and supposed abductions are demonic in nature? I can't rule it out. But neither have I seen any convincing evidence of it.

The same is true of the extraterrestrial explanation. I have yet to see any convincing evidence of an extraterrestrial civilization visiting Earth. But if they land on the roof of the U.N. tomorrow and announce themselves to the world, it will in no way cause my Faith to crumble. I see no inherent conflict between Faith and Reason. The fundamentalists may have some 'splainin' to do, but that's one reason I'm not a fundamentalist.
And I am an atheist and I do not see anything that proves the existence of anything. What I do see are people trying to sell me on their product. What I do see is an accumulation of snippets that each should be looked at on their own accord. They also toss in politicians that are known for twisting the truth as support for their claims.

Let us have the believers, scientist and skeptics all take a good look at the evidence they have and come up with explanations for the events that have been observed. I just don't like promotions without some credible evidence.
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Old 02-03-2020, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Maine
17,544 posts, read 21,543,571 times
Reputation: 20562
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
And I am an atheist and I do not see anything that proves the existence of anything.
Including yourself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
What I do see are people trying to sell me on their product. What I do see is an accumulation of snippets that each should be looked at on their own accord. They also toss in politicians that are known for twisting the truth as support for their claims.

Let us have the believers, scientist and skeptics all take a good look at the evidence they have and come up with explanations for the events that have been observed. I just don't like promotions without some credible evidence.
Sure. But the problem with this kind of stuff is that there is so little analyzable evidence. Most of it boils down to eyewitness testimony, and the only way to analyze that is to judge the reliability of the witness. Unless you have known that person for thirty years, there's really no way to do that.

So the skeptic might then say, "See! Eyewitness testimony is completely unreliable and we must therefore toss it out!"

Okay, then you're going to have to toss out 99.9999999999999999999% of human history, because it is all based on eyewitness testimony. If you are to immediately disbelieve eyewitness testimony, then you are no longer allowed to believe in the existence of Julius Caesar.
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Old 02-03-2020, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
15,607 posts, read 12,522,189 times
Reputation: 11757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Including yourself.




Sure. But the problem with this kind of stuff is that there is so little analyzable evidence. Most of it boils down to eyewitness testimony, and the only way to analyze that is to judge the reliability of the witness. Unless you have known that person for thirty years, there's really no way to do that.

So the skeptic might then say, "See! Eyewitness testimony is completely unreliable and we must therefore toss it out!"

Okay, then you're going to have to toss out 99.9999999999999999999% of human history, because it is all based on eyewitness testimony. If you are to immediately disbelieve eyewitness testimony, then you are no longer allowed to believe in the existence of Julius Caesar.
I don't believe in tossing out all human history; but I do believe in questioning that history. In recent history more people are questioning eye witness testimony like: https://www.duschelaw.com/blog/2019/...elieving.shtml. I quote from that link: "Of 360 cases overturned through DNA tests, about 70 percent involved inaccurate eyewitness identifications." I also realize that is how lawyers make their money.

But there have been many studies on this subject and, fortunately for innocent people wrongly accused of a crime; attitudes and practices have changed.

The bigger question is how do we apply this to history? Many times historical events were not even recorded at the time they happened. It was not until many years later that people wrote these accounts down. Sometimes the people that transcribed the information had reasons to write with their own prejudices. I am not saying that the events did not happen; but I am saying that we need all the information that we can gather before blindly accepting all as true. Archeology has come a long ways and we are unearthing more everyday. Our views will change as more information surfaces. I know that our views have changed in my 73 years. Some changes are good and some not so much.
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Old 02-03-2020, 04:02 PM
 
699 posts, read 119,973 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
Read my comment in context rather than scanning posts for something you can disagree with:

In other words - the comment about pretending represents how someone who is NOT from the video maker's apparent fundamentalist theological position would view the video.

I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian who goes to church at least twice a week and is involved in ministries, same as the late Fr. Seraphim Rose. I believe at least some of these phenomena are demonic in nature - and I've posted comments to that effect many times in the past in this forum. However, the video is not going to convince anyone who's not a fundamentalist Protestant and shares the video maker's world view. Capisce? If you go looking for people to pick a fight with, guess what you'll find -- people to pick a fight with.
All I did was post a video with some important information I think should be more widely known. I think it's possible that a non-believer might also be able to halt an abduction experience by calling out to Jesus. It's worth trying, especially since it's the ONLY thing that's known to work.

You responded to the video with an extensive critique that seemed unnecessary to me and dismissive. By commenting from the perspective of someone who holds a different belief to you, without making that clear, it was confusing. Thanks for clarifying, though.
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Old Today, 12:04 AM
 
13,900 posts, read 3,675,926 times
Reputation: 8992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew View Post
All I did was post a video with some important information I think should be more widely known. I think it's possible that a non-believer might also be able to halt an abduction experience by calling out to Jesus. It's worth trying, especially since it's the ONLY thing that's known to work.

You responded to the video with an extensive critique that seemed unnecessary to me and dismissive. By commenting from the perspective of someone who holds a different belief to you, without making that clear, it was confusing. Thanks for clarifying, though.
That doesnt ALWAYS work though, Ive read a number of encounters and abductions where this was attempted and it did not stop them...but then again, if 2 human beings break into your house and try to drag you away, what are the chances 'calling out to God' is going to stop them, 50/50 at best?
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Old Today, 07:48 AM
 
699 posts, read 119,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
That doesnt ALWAYS work though, Ive read a number of encounters and abductions where this was attempted and it did not stop them...but then again, if 2 human beings break into your house and try to drag you away, what are the chances 'calling out to God' is going to stop them, 50/50 at best?
I didn’t say it would always work, just that it’s the only thing known to work.
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Old Today, 09:34 AM
 
13,900 posts, read 3,675,926 times
Reputation: 8992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew View Post
I didn’t say it would always work, just that it’s the only thing known to work.
Well, you didnt have to, for God to be as powerful as is claimed...it SHOULD ALWAYS work to stop an abduction.
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Old Today, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,046 posts, read 3,188,878 times
Reputation: 6152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Including yourself.




Sure. But the problem with this kind of stuff is that there is so little analyzable evidence. Most of it boils down to eyewitness testimony, and the only way to analyze that is to judge the reliability of the witness. Unless you have known that person for thirty years, there's really no way to do that.

So the skeptic might then say, "See! Eyewitness testimony is completely unreliable and we must therefore toss it out!"

Okay, then you're going to have to toss out 99.9999999999999999999% of human history, because it is all based on eyewitness testimony. If you are to immediately disbelieve eyewitness testimony, then you are no longer allowed to believe in the existence of Julius Caesar.
The problem with your claim is that I do not think after all of these years, all of these centuries, we do not have ANY analyzable evidence of intelligent aliens visiting earth.


As for human history we do seek to back up the eye witness testimony or tie it to known events through various sources. We can also look at the results and see some things were correct and others were not. I do not think we ever take historical documents as gospel. I would say that not everyone that is a believers takes the gospels as gospel. That is the difference and it is a huge difference. You are attempting to tie the two together to add credence to the one outrageous claim but the fact that you have to try such shenanigans shows how weak the case for intelligent extraterrestrial life visiting Earth is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Well, you didnt have to, for God to be as powerful as is claimed...it SHOULD ALWAYS work to stop an abduction.
It would work in all cases that God wants to stop it. Just because you pray for God to do something does not obligate God to do anything...
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