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Maybe this renewed second wave is the result of the release of some pathogens from our bacterial warfare arsenal as a follow up to what the Chinese released to keep us panicking. Our government did it before.
Flu pandemics show multiple waves of infection -- there were three waves in the 1918-1920 flu pandemic, and the middle one was the deadliest. I can't see any reason why Covid-19 should behave differently.
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In the 20th century, the world experienced three influenza pandemics: the 1918 H1N1 "Spanish flu'', the 1957 H2N2 "Asian flu'', and the 1968 H3N2 "Hong Kong flu''. The first influenza pandemic of the 21st century occurred in 2009 and was caused by a swine-origin H1N1 influenza A virus. During each of these four pandemics, the United States experienced multiple waves of infections, where the numbers of infections and deaths exhibited well-separated temporal peaks with a separation time-scale of months
It matters greatly whether it was an accidental release or intentional, because if it was intentional; the spread of contagion IS the goal & we are being instructed as to what to do; with failure being the objective.
At this point; that a bat hung out with a pangolin 900 miles away from Wuhan & somehow made it 900 miles to Wuhan without being eaten, only to be sold at a wet market, in a massive city literally covered by CCTV, where it was illegal to sell pangolins, infecting one person & then causing a global pandemic is too much woo for even the paranormal forum.
If it was an accidental release, it matters, because if not addressed; it can happen again.
If it was intentional, it matters, obviously because it was a crime of war but also because somebody knows more about what is causing susceptibility to covid & they are sitting there letting people die, on purpose. If it was intentional:
Somebody called our President a racist because he wanted to cut off travel from China, KNOWING that it would save lives, because the goal was for it to spread.
Somebody lied about masks for FOUR months (well, we already know that happened because Fauci admitted it) because they KNEW that would save lives.
Somebody is STILL lying now, telling us to get our flu shots; KNOWING that repeated influenza vaccination blunts something called a "CD4 T cell response"
Those people, are knowingly causing people to die, so I am now thinking the release was intentional, not accidental because, they are still trying to get us sick. They know how to slow the rates but they are advising us to do the one thing that will for sure increase them.
I tried giving you positive rep for this post but citydata wouldn't allow it. Says I have to spread more to others first.
I want to say bravo to your ability to display critical thinking and critical thought. You question. You research.
That it's so rare to see people who think like yourself reflects a national embarrassment for the US. We used to be a nation of questioners. Now it's a bunch of brainwashed sheep who follow the corrupt MSM and call any viewpoint originating from outside that bubble a conspiracy theory.
Somebody is STILL lying now, telling us to get our flu shots; KNOWING that repeated influenza vaccination blunts something called a "CD4 T cell response"
In the meantime, empirical evidence suggests that while both vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals can get sick from influenza virus infection, the most severe cases of illness resulting in hospitalization and/or death typically occur in unvaccinated individuals. Therefore, it is wise to stick to the CDC’s recommendation and get a flu shot every year, preferably by the end of October, to ensure lasting serum antibodies throughout the season.
Why does the article say "in the meantime"? Now read the next to last paragraph:
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The results from this and similar studies are interesting but inconclusive for several reasons. First, the patients “self-reported” their prior vaccination history. The authors don’t comment on whether patients had to provide paperwork to show their vaccination record or whether they used other methods of fact-checking. The sample size was quite small, consisting of a total of 78 participants, and the study was carried out over only two seasons. Consistent with these limitations, the authors are careful to note that the events leading to diminished antibody responses in annual vaccine recipients are likely complex and that more work is needed to clarify a causal relationship linked to repeated vaccination. Although the authors don’t mention this possibility, it is also likely that first-time vaccine recipients exhibit a phenomenon known as “original antigenic sin”, where the immune system mounts the strongest response to the first version of one particular antigen encountered.
You don't make health policy or medical recommendations for a given patient based on inconclusive studies - or on bits and pieces of the same studies strung together to make an "argument" for the existence of some sort of conspiracy. Which is called proof testing when evangelical Christians do it. That's not how science works.
Whether or not the Chinese government was somehow the cause of the release and spread of this virus, there's no reason to believe that there's some conspiracy to "kill" people with the vaccine. Or for that matter, to "kill" people by recommending for years that people get their annual flu shots. As far as I can determine, there's no compelling evidence that after years of people getting flu shots that those who are repeatedly vaccinated are more likely to die from the flu than people who aren't vaccinated. If there were, the articles you linked would have mentioned it.
As far as I can determine, there's no compelling evidence that after years of people getting flu shots that those who are repeatedly vaccinated are more likely to die from the flu than people who aren't vaccinated. If there were, the articles you linked would have mentioned it.
I caught the flu about 10 years ago and was sicker than I had ever been in my life. During a few hours, I thought I was dying. Not fun, to say the least.
Ever since, I get the flu vaccine every year. Never caught the flu. The vaccine never killed me. I haven't developed mutant powers or started glowing in the dark. As far as I know, there are no micro-robots in my bloodstream from the vaccine. If there are, they don't seem to be bothering me.
I caught the flu about 10 years ago and was sicker than I had ever been in my life. During a few hours, I thought I was dying. Not fun, to say the least.
Ever since, I get the flu vaccine every year. Never caught the flu. The vaccine never killed me. I haven't developed mutant powers or started glowing in the dark. As far as I know, there are no micro-robots in my bloodstream from the vaccine. If there are, they don't seem to be bothering me.
I had pneumonia and developed atrial fibrillation the same year two decades years ago. I was told by my doctor that I should get a flu shot every year for the rest of my life because having had pneumonia and afib made me more susceptible to bad outcomes. I also have had multiple vaccinations against pneumonia. I'll be 74 in January, which is the third strike against me. For those reasons, I'll be getting the Covid-19 vaccine.
The flu vaccine is 40-60% effective, depending on the strains that year and the health of the recipient. Obese people are more likely to have bad outcomes with the flu - just like with Covid-19. No vaccine is going to be 100% effective. The point is to reduce the numbers and improve your chances - just like wearing a seat belt isn't 100% effective at reducing your chance of dying in a traffic accident, but it sure as hell helps.
I watched my paternal grandfather die a long and agonizing death over 50 years ago from what they now call COPD. It's a terrible way to go. As a result of the current experience, I'll be washing my hands often and limiting time in crowds at the height of flu season in the future -- even if Covid-19 magically disappears. I have friends who are nurses and doctors and they all recommend the same. And like you, I haven't had flu once in the 20 years that I've been getting the annual vaccination.
I find all this political proselytizing against vaccination troublesome -- if you don't want to take the vaccine fine. My parents didn't get us the Salk polio vaccinations, and got us on a list for the Sabin vaccine when it first came out because there were negative reports floating around about the Salk vaccine. That's fine, it's a personal choice. But when someone on the left says "I won't take the shot because it's Trump's vaccine", or someone on the right says "I won't take the shot because it's a Bill Gates conspiracy with big pharma", or says "if you wear a mask in public, you're sheeple", they've lost me. This isn't about politics. And if someone chooses to take the vaccine, wear a mask, and social distance, those who disagree need to mind their own freaking beeswax and quit judging what other people are doing.
No vaccine is going to be 100% effective. The point is to reduce the numbers and improve your chances - just like wearing a seat belt isn't 100% effective at reducing your chance of dying in a traffic accident, but it sure as hell helps.
Correct.
And even if the COVID-19 vaccine is only 70% effective --- and it is reportedly 90%+ --- it will still slow the pandemic --- and eventually stop it altogether. Because right now, almost everyone is susceptible. So one person gets it, and he spreads it to five people. Each of those five people spread it to another five people. Each of those 25 people spread it to another 5 people. Do that over a few weeks, and you soon have a pandemic on your hands.
But now say that Patient 1 was only able to spread it to 1 other person, because all 5 were vaccinated. That one person only spreads it to 1 other person, because all 5 were vaccinated. Eventually the virus is going to hit a wall where it can no longer spread.
So yes, there probably will be outbreaks of COVID-19 from now on. I suspect it is with us now much like influenza. But if we get a viable vaccine and people will take it, it will no longer be a pandemic --- or even an epidemic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily
I find all this political proselytizing against vaccination troublesome -- if you don't want to take the vaccine fine. My parents didn't get us the Salk polio vaccinations, and got us on a list for the Sabin vaccine when it first came out because there were negative reports floating around about the Salk vaccine. That's fine, it's a personal choice.
Agreed. If someone has a valid reason for such personal choices, it's not any of my business. But they need to be willing to accept the consequences.
If someone doesn't want to use soap or deodorant, that's their choice. But if businesses or libraries politely ask them to leave because they reek, them's the breaks. You made your bed. You lay in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily
But when someone on the left says "I won't take the shot because it's Trump's vaccine", or someone on the right says "I won't take the shot because it's a Bill Gates conspiracy with big pharma", or says "if you wear a mask in public, you're sheeple", they've lost me.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily
This isn't about politics. And if someone chooses to take the vaccine, wear a mask, and social distance, those who disagree need to mind their own freaking beeswax and quit judging what other people are doing.
Within reason, sure. Your rights only extends so far. Until they impinge on another's rights.
A good rule of thumb a wise person once told me: "Until you live up to your responsibilities, then shut up about your rights."
So what I read from this, is that we should trust the 'experts' and follow their advice and we will be safe.
Firstly, the governmental system is breaking down because there is a loss of trust in the elected officials. Mainly due to greed. Greed for power and greed for money. Some large companies and organisations are using this greed to corrupt the process and therefore make it 'broken'. The rights that were put in place previously are being eroded which further destroys the trust people have in the 'process' of government.
If some people do not trust their government to tell them the truth and to act in the best interests of the people who elected them, what should they do ?
Within reason, sure. Your rights only extends so far. Until they impinge on another's rights.
The comment was inspired by people I've seen on forums and heard on talk shows saying negative things about the "sheeple" they see wearing masks in public. I've heard of people shouting at mask wearers. Someone who wears a mask and social distances isn't impinging on anyone's rights. If someone is running around without a mask, getting close to people and not respecting their space, that's a different matter.
So what I read from this, is that we should trust the 'experts' and follow their advice and we will be safe.
Firstly, the governmental system is breaking down because there is a loss of trust in the elected officials. Mainly due to greed. Greed for power and greed for money. Some large companies and organisations are using this greed to corrupt the process and therefore make it 'broken'. The rights that were put in place previously are being eroded which further destroys the trust people have in the 'process' of government.
If some people do not trust their government to tell them the truth and to act in the best interests of the people who elected them, what should they do ?
I don't trust the government to tell me the truth, or to act in our best interests. I don't believe all the numbers I'm seeing (and especially the way people are interpreting the numbers), and (returning to the subject of this thread) I find the origins of Covid-19 suspicious. I don't find anything I disagree with in your statements. However ... I've read extensively on the research and followed it since March, and it's pretty clear that this virus is more contagious than flu, and for certain populations (the elderly, those with cardiovascular or pulmonary disorders, the obese) it can be deadly.
I wear a mask in public, not because I'm 100% convinced it makes a huge difference difference but because I respect the fears of those around me. When I leave a store, the mask comes off. I social distance and avoid being in crowded places for extended periods of time because the data says those are precisely the kind of places where it spreads. You catch it in places like nursing homes and indoor restaurants. I don't wear a mask when I'm outdoors.
Where I draw the line: if I lived in California or one of the other states with draconian and senseless rules that are more about the governor exerting his/her ability to dominate the public, I would not cooperate. I'm talking about nonsense like this from the hypocrite Governor Newsom:
This link comes from earthfiles reporting the scientists have developed a nasal spray which appears to work on ferrets against the CORV-19 virus. OK, so this is only a small sample and has not been tested on humans, yet they use ferrets as test subjects because I assume they catch 'flu so well. (see below)
Ferrets are used by scientists who study respiratory diseases such as influenza, SARS and SARS-CoV-2 because through the ferret’s nose, just like through the human nose, viruses can be breathed in and cause infection. To test their lipopeptide spray, the scientists sprayed the noses of six ferrets. Then they were divided into three pairs placed in three different cages. Then into each cage came two ferrets given only a placebo, not the lipopeptide spray. And finally, added to those four ferrets was a fifth that had been infected with COVID-19 two or three days before.
“Coronavirus Replication Was Completely Blocked.”
Twenty-four hours later, inside the three test cages, none of the ferrets that received the nose spray had caught COVID-19. But all the ferrets that had only placebos were infected.
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