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Old 05-16-2020, 07:24 AM
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Location: Up North
1,781 posts, read 772,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
I think ur directing this to the op, me, right?
One at a time...yes, I respect agnostics WAY more than Fundies.

I haven't seen spirits. My uncle, my buddy - has come to visit me - and wow, in CO - the whole place or my car has filled with seagull/ocean smells maybe you have heard your gramma may fill the room with her rose perfume ---
or a father with his pipe and Old Spice scent?) Anyway, I feel his presence just dropping in.
But ONE time I was in an emotionally stuck place, darn relationships!
And I'll be darned if once he made his presence known if he didn't infused my mind with a profound, dawning realization of what the dynamics were that helped me outta the mess.

God? - You don't know me yet...Having done meditation for 47 years often 3-6
hours in complete silence and stillness...almost breathless - yes.
And He personally has visited me for decades...and may I say -WOW.
I am not quite the same for, say, 3 months afterwards.
I don't say this lightly, tho, online it seems trite, I know.


Unicorns - I believe they exist in another dimension and have 'bled through', like fairies and such,
to accidentally be seen by us.
This is fascinating.
One of the big problems with modern science and modern thinking in general is the absence of silence and meditation. There's so much noise and so many distractions we constantly gravitate towards, that we sometimes forget to slow down, stop, think about what we absorb, what we learn.... meditate..
So many facts, figures, and general information thrown at us constantly, and I'm afraid we really don't know what to do with all that. Getting caught up in it can lead to rigid, black-and-white thinking. To people that accepts this mentality, everything that exists must be able to be physically observed. I personally don't get it.
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Old 05-16-2020, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Southern NC
2,045 posts, read 4,505,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Very good post. I have similar trouble with atheists. How are they so cocksure that there is no supreme being?

These people also insist upon using scientific method to understand supernatural events. It can not be done. That's akin to attempting to judge art, music or literature by using scientific method. Different fields. Different criteria. Art, literature, music etc., also have a subjective factor.

When it comes to disbelief in ghosts, spirits, and other phenomena, I think that die, hard skeptics, are just uncomfortable with what they cannot control or manipulate.

That says more about them, and their mindset, than it does about those of us who believe.

I am comfortable not having an answer for everything, and open to learning new things and exploring different philosophies, possibilities, and viewpoints.
The same can be asked about why you're so sure these Moderator cut: rude things happen? What supernatural events? I think believers have huge imaginations? Moderator cut: very rude
I'm not sure how this became about not respecting Atheists. I believe that says more about you than it does us. Maybe that's your mindset, you're too uncomfortable to face the truth that there is nothing after life. Is that too scary for you? Have you ever had surgery and been put to sleep? Death is no different. You're here one minute, and total blackness the next. Why are you so scared to think that's all there is, to the point you start disrespecting people that don't believe your fantasies?
I have no fear about any of this, why would a die hard skeptic want to control or manipulate anything? It just sounds like believers have so much fear of dying, that they make up this other land where they will live once their body gives out?
Yes. Unbelievable.

Last edited by Tallysmom; 05-16-2020 at 09:31 AM.. Reason: Rude. Discuss this at length but don’t pull out mental illness as a reason for a belief system
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Old 05-16-2020, 10:13 AM
 
17,062 posts, read 4,638,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steiconi View Post
I've read that after 5 minutes without oxygen, you have brain damage.
I dont understand?


Are you saying its normal for a non religious person to suddenly have a religious experience, where they feel drawn to God, or the bible?


My friend was not the only person this has happened to either, there are numerous stories from people that have experienced 'NDEs' (whatever they are) and then became a totally changed person...going from non religious...to VERY religious.


If NDEs were just creations of the mind...a person becoming religious due to one, would be unlikely.
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Old 05-16-2020, 02:08 PM
 
6,079 posts, read 3,340,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
..

(That's why i respect agnostics more than atheists...because there is an openness....that's all,
a humility that...
Hmmm--interesting you are assuming what all atheists think.

I would considered myself an atheists, but I think there are some things going on that we cannot explain. When my mother was in hospice, the day before she died, I walked in the room and it had that distinct smell of my Grandfather. I guess it was just him telling her she could join him. The smell was just there for a minute or so.

I was waiting for the Twilight Zone theme song from the 60's to begin
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Old 05-16-2020, 03:55 PM
 
1,183 posts, read 1,617,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
I could not presume to understand all the different takes on atheism or agnosticism. I will add that in my sentences from now on.
My response had nothing to do with you understanding different takes on atheism or agnosticism. The definitions you are using are not accurate. I gave you the correct definition, so maybe just use that instead of putting in a disclaimer.

I would categorize babies as atheists, they lack a belief in a deity. Do you not respect babies because they are atheists? There are also atheists, surprising as it may be, who do believe in spirits, just not in a god.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
(That's why i respect agnostics more than atheists...because there is an openness

Why not say, "Hey, I've never seen one, but maybe there are spirits that come around..."?
Is it because you hold your personal logic in such high esteem?
Is it because a spirit can't be seen under a microscope? So that is your criteria,
that,
'The unseen must be seen, darnnit? Nothing not seen does not exist. Period.'?


Thanks for answering or explaining your reasons- hopefully without insults.
The bolded parts could be seen as insults. You admit you do not respect atheists as much as others. You have taken a misrepresentation of atheism and created silly statements in a mocking tone that you believe an atheist would say. Then, ironically, you finish by stating the hope that others don't insult you.

I don't mind the initial post setting up a silly atheist straw man by using incorrect definitions of atheist and agnostic, then making mocking statements about what atheists believe. However, I've given you the correct definitions and you continue to refuse to use them. "Hey, I've never seen one, but maybe there are..." is exactly what an atheist might say.

An atheist doesn't have to deny the existence of gods, they don't know if they exist. Therefore, they currently lack belief in a god. That's it. They can still believe in spirits, ghosts, unicorns, and dragons. They could still be gathering "evidence" to see if they believe a god exists.

An agnostic believes that it is impossible, for whatever reason, to know if a god exists or not. How is this more open than an atheist who says that it could be possible?

Atheism is a statement about current belief, agnosticism is a statement about knowledge. Of the two, atheism seems more open as you are not closing off the possibility of knowing about a god. An atheist may either be agnostic or not agnostic. Most agnostics are atheists, as it would be somewhat silly to say that we can't know anything about the existence of a god, yet they still believe in one anyway.

From your responses, I'm not all that sure you are interesting in finding out what others believe.
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Old 05-16-2020, 05:52 PM
 
8,768 posts, read 2,439,115 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC~Mom View Post
I have no fear about any of this, why would a die hard skeptic want to control or manipulate anything? It just sounds like believers have so much fear of dying, that they make up this other land where they will live once their body gives out?
Yes. Unbelievable.

Bingo.



Especially in times before the advent of science. Times were very difficult and little of the world made any sense. But to struggle through it and have some glorious afterlife to be rewarded with was a popular idea.
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Old 05-16-2020, 06:35 PM
 
Location: PRC
3,713 posts, read 3,622,252 times
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The thing is, I dont think these people who experience NDEs have much of a fear of what comes after because they then 'know' rather than 'believe'.

There is nothing different between the folks who believe 'nothing' exists to the ones who believe 'something' exists because both believe and thats all it is beleif. However, the people who have been there, seen it, done it, they 'know' what is after death. For them, their belief is enough.
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Old 05-17-2020, 08:48 AM
 
17,062 posts, read 4,638,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound View Post
Bingo.



Especially in times before the advent of science. Times were very difficult and little of the world made any sense. But to struggle through it and have some glorious afterlife to be rewarded with was a popular idea.
That is relative though...at that time, they thought they had the world figured out, (same as people do today)! The future usually proves them wrong!


Just like in the past, Im sure there are 'scientific facts' today, that will eventually be found to be wrong, or inaccurate.
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Old 05-17-2020, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
18,565 posts, read 13,937,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
That is not what one of my friends experienced years ago, when he died for 7 min...
I was there in the hospital room when he was revived,( I had known this guy since high school), he was in a state of shock and frightened, the first words he spoke was to ask for a bible, (and this is a guy who partied all the time, drinking and drugging, all kinds of crazy immoral behavior).
I believe you and can see that would shake you up!

We all need certain things to wake us up ---that's why there are Pastors, on TV esp,
-that are all sweet and mellow (Joel Osteen types)--
-direct and tell it like it is, confrontational (Joyce Myers)--
--some all about hope, miracles and your own powers to heal with the Holy Spirit, (the Copelands)--
THEN, the fire and brimstone scary ones -(John Hagee types).

You're friend obviously needed a kick in the butt, lol. He could have carried so much
guilt in his subconscious mind that he could have been frightened by the shadow of an Angel! See?
What a perfect system that is set up for us!

I personally needed a brick to fall on my head a few times this lifetime to finally 'get' what
I needed to learn after lives of not ''getting it, stuck in repeat mode''.
(I'm weird, ha, and have been given insights from past lives, so I speak from direct experience
of being shown.)

His exp shouldn't keep you in fear, tho.
When you trust that all is for your good ---being scared straight or loving -a peace
can settle in you. It really is all for the good.

But, hey, maybe you need to be scared, and I shouldn't say anything...but I'll leave this post
anyway, cuz maybe you 'need' to hear another perspective, at the same time.
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Old 05-17-2020, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
18,565 posts, read 13,937,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WannabeCPA View Post
Because there is no evidence that they exist.
Thanks, spot on answering the op.
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