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....I do believe in living by the Judeo Christian principles, I try to be a good person, I try to be kind, I don’t go around committing sins just because I don’t believe in a higher being.....
Oh I agree -- I don't think belief in a higher being is at all necessary to "be a good person... to be kind... [to not] go around committing sins...." Humans are social creatures, and social norms typically mean a lot. As Carl Sagan said:
"Ethical rules... were not originally invented by some enlightened human lawgiver [or higher being, for that matter]. They go deep into our evolutionary past. They were with our ancestral line from a time before we were human."
I think you’re being very literal here. Yes, there is a biblical saying “ashes to ashes and dust to dust we hate to beat you but we must we must,” wait — that was a high school cheer. God, the coffee needs to kick in.
I believe that the others are referring to spirit. I’m just not sure about that, as I’ve said. I do believe in living by the Judeo Christian principles, I try to be a good person, I try to be kind, I don’t go around committing sins just because I don’t believe in a higher being. I try to live a righteous life for me.
As I have also said before I’ve received no signs whatsoever that somebody’s trying to reach me from the great beyond. Zip nada nothing. And my husband loved me more than anything. In the last year or so of his life as he was going through this he told everybody loud and clear that he couldn’t have done anything in his life, have anything in his life, be anything in his life if it wasn’t for me. Maybe because I’m pushy. . If anybody would come back and let me know he’s OK, and what it’s like, and all the fun he’s having with Lemmy (Motörhead), it would be him. And he hasn’t.
Altogether my wife and I had a 53 year history. Three years of dating and 50 years of marriage. We loved each other for a very long time. I sleep in the room that she died in. She died of bone cancer that started off as lung cancer. It is painful. As much as I miss her I like to think of her at peace and out of pain. That idea has helped me through these hard times. I acknowledge that most of my grief is selfish, I am lonely and want my companion back. But I know that can never happen.
Maybe even scarier is the idea of dating again at 73, soon to be 74! It would be great to believe I could have another companion, but there are so many pitfalls. Besides that, it took so many years for my wife to train me! There is where some advice form the other side would come in handy!
Altogether my wife and I had a 53 year history. Three years of dating and 50 years of marriage. We loved each other for a very long time. I sleep in the room that she died in. She died of bone cancer that started off as lung cancer. It is painful. As much as I miss her I like to think of her at peace and out of pain. That idea has helped me through these hard times. I acknowledge that most of my grief is selfish, I am lonely and want my companion back. But I know that can never happen.
Maybe even scarier is the idea of dating again at 73, soon to be 74! It would be great to believe I could have another companion, but there are so many pitfalls. Besides that, it took so many years for my wife to train me! There is where some advice form the other side would come in handy!
Thats wonderful you and your wife had such a long and happy marriage...53 yrs is really SOMETHING!!
I was only married for a fraction of that time and the majority of the time was spent hating each other and fighting, sadly, much of it was due to money, (she was not good with managing money/credit, and I did not have the job I do I today), so we struggled quite a bit in those days, Im just glad we never had any kids, that would made matters much worse.
Its taken many years, but I realize many of our problems were due to MY actions too, I was unhappy at home, and when a 22 yr old gal at work took interest in me, ( and I took interest in her), it just led down a bad road of infidelity, getting addicted to drugs, and more problems in general. Since we have been divorced for many years, Ive told my ex wife I was sorry for the things I did, but i dont think she will ever totally forgive me, she knows I am not that person anymore, but what I did to her was TERRIBLE.
Im just happy my exwife is now with a man who loves her and treats her great, and she is happy at last.
I think you’re being very literal here. Yes, there is a biblical saying “ashes to ashes and dust to dust we hate to beat you but we must we must,” wait — that was a high school cheer. God, the coffee needs to kick in.
I believe that the others are referring to spirit. I’m just not sure about that, as I’ve said. I do believe in living by the Judeo Christian principles, I try to be a good person, I try to be kind, I don’t go around committing sins just because I don’t believe in a higher being. I try to live a righteous life for me.
As I have also said before I’ve received no signs whatsoever that somebody’s trying to reach me from the great beyond. Zip nada nothing. And my husband loved me more than anything. In the last year or so of his life as he was going through this he told everybody loud and clear that he couldn’t have done anything in his life, have anything in his life, be anything in his life if it wasn’t for me. Maybe because I’m pushy. . If anybody would come back and let me know he’s OK, and what it’s like, and all the fun he’s having with Lemmy (Motörhead), it would be him. And he hasn’t.
I feel that often it is not because THEY cannot communicate but it is because we do not have the senses which are developed enough to receive such communication. It is no-one's fault as such because we are so 3D and physical that all our senses are attuned to 3D and physical things, thats what we do here - interact with 3D physical stuff and the subtle stuff of other realities just passes us by.
Also, of course, our culture does not recognise dreams as "real" and so everyone dismisses them as fantasies of the mind or takes them very lightly. "Oh, it was just a dream", or "You've had a bad dream, go back to sleep" when we are kids just teaches us to dismiss them as mind farts of a sleeping body. We are totally unused to thinking in terms of multiple realities, yet we have at least 2 in our life all the time, and possibly more are open to us if we bother to investigate.
From what I have read, it seems that dreams are one of the common ways we are contacted by those on the other side and here we are, not taking any notice of them. Since probably more than half our life is spent sleeping, it makes sense to use that time as constructively as the other half of our life, but we dont.
I think there may be a lot of wisdom in books like the Bible but I feel it may be distorted and hidden from normal understanding. Looked at from a priestly initiates point of view, it might be describing many of the experiences which they were familiar with in their line of work.
I dont think this is not really a topic for the Grief and Mourning forum or for the Religious forum either.
I am suggesting a kind-of code to 'prove' survival after death and maybe we can design a good one.
I had a hospice patient 24 years ago who wanted to do an experiment. Her family thought she was nuts but she didn't care. She had been a long time wealthy widow who built a company & raised her kids on her own & loved to travel & explore. She looked at her imminent death as her next great adventure. Her name was Josephine but she preferred to be called Jo; it suited her well.
She always said to keep our eyes open after she was gone, that if there was a way, she would make sure we heard from her, lol. I was her RN case manager but ended doing a lot of the hands-on care myself, so I was with her for at least 8 hours a day for weeks. I WANTED to tell her that I wished she would remember me after death. I wanted to tell her about my little girl who had died 2 years previously from an adverse vaccine reaction. If she could find a way ... maybe, just maybe she could tell my baby that I was so sorry. That I loved her & that I would not let her death be in vain. But I wasn't family, you know; I was officially 'the help'. So I kept me mouth shut.
Besides, I knew that if Jo came back, in a dream or whatever, that I wouldn't believe myself. I would be "wishful thinking". I wanted it too bad, so why bother?
Until the day before she died. She was in that transition phase. Comatose, basically but I knew that she could still hear me & respond to pain stimuli. I held her hand & whispered "If you see my baby Jessie, my little dark haired, blue eyed girl; please tell her mommy loves her".
Jo died the next day, peacefully, in her beautiful home, surrounded by family; just the way she wanted. Jo had lived life on her terms & she died on her terms too.
A few months later, Jessica's dad moved back to Colorado from Florida, where he had been since the year after her death. He called me from a pay phone, late at night & asked if he could crash over at my place for the rest of the night. It was late, he was tired & he promised to be gone by morning, so I agreed. I slept on the couch that night & gave him the bedroom.
That next morning, he came hurrying down the stairs with a bright red face. He said he had the weirdest dream about Jessica. He said an old lady "with a man's name" was standing right in front of the bed holding our daughter. He said the lady was giggling & showed him the baby in her arms & said "You go tell her mom that I am with her baby girl, because she wouldn't believe me if I told her!" She said everything had happened the way it was supposed to. That everything was going to be okay.
He said "Do you know who that was? Do you know an old lady with a man's name?" Well, yes, I did. I just had to start laughing, because not only did I know who she was but she had outsmarted me too, lol.
I dont really like thinking about death too much, because it scares me so much, mostly due to the unknowns..NO ONE knows what happens! We have lots of theories, we have NDEs, but those people are still alive to tell the tale, (so they are not 'dead' technically)...
But I will say this, the bible mentions that God does not condone the living 'communicating' with the dead, or even attempting it...so that tells me, it IS possible to do...why would God warn against doing something, if it wasnt even possible in the first place?
Anyone living who would say that THEY can communicate with the dead, is going against the common biblical interpretation of the event. The mediums who have the most credibility actually don't say that but regardless, for some reason, that's how it always seems to be interpreted.
What they are actually saying; is that they can HEAR the dead who communicate with THEM, for the benefit of others. There is a difference. "God" (aka the BIBLE, really), has never been known to impart that the dead can't contact us, or that there is anything wrong with that. They may seek us out but we are not to pretend we can seek them out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye
You can see what happens, we rot. We can slow down the process with harsh chemicals like formaldehyde. But, in the end, we still rot. Eventually we all turn to dust, even though it might take a very long time. If you hook up dust or a mushy brain up to our best scientific equipment, there is no signal. What we were is gone.
No the body rots (but I was raised that it must still be respected), not YOU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20
So..you think some people are 'saved' and others might get to be worm-food ? No, I think it is probably one thing or the other. Either we live on or we dont - otherwise you have some kind of judgement going on. All indications are that there is no 'right' way, no favoured or special or God's people because everyone asks God to be on their side in a war. I dont see any one side getting help and winning all the time, do you? As far as I can see, whatever energy is in charge does not have personal favourites, and that emotion is reserved for lesser gods of the Old Testament.
I think that everybody dies equal. However, not everybody has lived "equal". "Hell", to me, would be regret in the afterlife. If you did not live "doing unto others", in whatever that meant for YOUR time, in YOUR culture, YOUR religion, etc ... You die knowing that. You go on; knowing that you failed. That sounds more miserable to me than fire & brimstone; to transition to eternity full of pride & arrogance, only to realize after you have left this earth, that those earthly pursuits were not why you were here.
The beautiful thing about that, is that it's never to late to self actualize & make things right, even on your deathbed you could at least try & if the living do not accept that, well; that is their problem. What matters is that you acheived that actualization before you died. "Well done, my good & faithful servant" ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere
Many of us have received signs that the other is okay on the other side, but it isn't that it can be dictated ahead of time, IMO. In my case, it was something meaningful only to us and entirely unexpected by me (I already believed in life after death, but this was a nice bonus reassurance) and, in fact, quite amusing. I wish everyone who loses a loved one could experience this; it certainly helps ease the pain of loss.
But if we all had that assurance, how would we have the choice to choose faith?
Despite everything that I have experienced, I am not "eased". I still understand that I really know nothing. I am still trying to choose faith. I feel guilty because I have been given gifts that others only dream about but I second guess EVERYTHING so much I can't be a light for others. I work on faith on my own still. The only thing I am quite sure about, the topic I will scream from the rooftops; is something I CAN change for the living. There is something terribly wrong with our public health measures. Something is not right. This imparts a burden on me, instead of ease; I have a job to do.
I dont really like thinking about death too much, because it scares me so much, mostly due to the unknowns..NO ONE knows what happens! We have lots of theories, we have NDEs, but those people are still alive to tell the tale, (so they are not 'dead' technically)...
But I will say this, the bible mentions that God does not condone the living 'communicating' with the dead, or even attempting it...so that tells me, it IS possible to do...why would God warn against doing something, if it wasnt even possible in the first place?
Actually, one of the kings DID communicate with the dead, got his but chewed for that BY the dead guy.
Saul was the one. 1 Samuel 28
Now, the thing I got from this passage was:
1. It is possible to contact the dead.
2. It's not a good idea though.
3. I don't know if there's anyone who can do it today.
I dont think this is not really a topic for the Grief and Mourning forum or for the Religious forum either.
I am suggesting a kind-of code to 'prove' survival after death and maybe we can design a good one.
I have just had a brother in law transition so this is my background for this thread.
When someone close to you dies, it kind-of brings your own life into perspective and you start thinking about life after death and your own transition and the people you will leave behind, how they will cope, etc.
IF (and it is a big IF) there is a life after death, then we should be able to 'prove' this to the ones who are left behind - if there are no 'rules' which say we cannot do that of course. (Who knows what we will find when we make the transition)
We cannot really 'prove' this to anyone else as there have been enough examples of people getting messages from the other side and others just do not seem to accept those as 'proof' good enough to assure them of anything. I mean, Spiritualists have been trying to prove life after death for decades and it just does not provide what people need otherwise we would all believe it, not just Spiritualists.
So, what I was thinking is to have some kind of sign - as others have done - which will prove to the ones left behind that we live on and are OK. Maybe have some kind of code which has some levels of OK-ness like for example
Nothing - I'm not aware, there is no life after death or I cannot make contact
1 - I'm alive still, things are really bad
2 - I'm alive still, things are pretty bad
3 - I'm alive and things are OK, no need to worry, see you later
4 - I'm alive and things are great, no need to worry, see you later
If we cannot actually communicate via thoughts, then at least some code words would give our message.
I am thinking 3 words given to the ones left behind from 3 different sources, the first word/code is the level of OKness and the other two would be 2 other code words to say 'this is really me' if they were correct and as agreed beforehand. These code words need to be highly unlikely to crop up in normal conversation, so the probability of them being given as a message is very low, close to zero in fact, but also something which is easy to recognize. In the book Illusions by Richard Bach, he uses an example as a blue feather, and it appears on a milk carton as a company or brand name. It is not used as a code word as I am suggesting, but for something else in the story.
Of course, I have no idea if all this is correct, but I think of the pool of spirits as around us all the time, and I also think we might be allowed to give this kind of message early on in our new journey on the other side, so that the people left behind can feel comfortable and relieved we are OK. I am sure this does go on, but we do not pay attention to the messages they try to send in dreams etc.
If multiple people have this kind of code, and they get a response, then either there is a life after death or something else is going on which takes us beyond normal mathematical probabilities of chance.
As was explained, Houdini (who spent his life debunking these so called spiritualist that were actually con men and women) developed a code word to give to his wife upon his death. Really, it was even an easy code, their favorite song, that could have been cracked via what they call now "social engineering". Every year for ten years she had seances for her dead husband using a variety of the best spiritualists in the country. In one case the code was broken in a case that his wife described as "fraud". But in the end, no proof of spiritual life was given.
After 10 years his wife said "10 years is too long to wait for any man".
There is no better documented proof that those who claim they can talk to the dead are fraudsters preying on the grief of others. Hats off to Houdini for exposing them.
Extremely interesting conversations in this thread.
If you are seriously looking for answers, you need look no further than the free (pdf) download of "the Spirits Book".
It was written by the spirits themselves through mediums, and automatic writing.
It is in a question/answer format, and there is nothing left to our imaginations.
It is all spelled out for us in plain, easy to read language.
I have the hard copy, and refer to it often.
What I have found from reading this book is, many life situations that we sometimes can't find a reason, or meaning for, are explained in this book.
In all the publications I have read over the many years, this book delves into the many facets of life in the entire universe.
Two very distinct points I have learned from this book are, we are not alone in this universe, and when people pass from their human existence, they are returned to their "real home" in the spirit world.
Many times we humans feel we are the superior beings, above all else, and that is not the case.
The spirits rule all, with guidance from one another.
The creator of all has given that right to all spirits.
How they use that is entirely up to the individual spirit.
You can Google "the Spirits Book", click on the link, and save it to your computer.
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. If anybody would come back and let me know he’s OK, and what it’s like, and all the fun he’s having with Lemmy (Motörhead), it would be him. And he hasn’t.
