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If youre using the pics Paul provided, the first pic was before an autopsy conducted shortly after the cow died. I think it was 2 hours, but I dont recall at the moment. The cause was said to be stress induced pneumonia, which can happen fast. (We lost at least 2 to that.) The mystery is what caused the stress when no other problems were found in the autopsy. I still do not think they used the same cow.
Other animals would freely take parts of a dead carcass, regardless of stage of decomp. Buzzards, for example. But there was not one sign of anything eating off of it, or so they say, nor were there any signs of poisoning in the animal they could dectect, but they only checked for specific things.
Dogs or coyotes would be my first guess as far as stress. The weather could be another factor?
One thing that can cause stress in my deer is coyotes. Deer fear coyotes more than any other predator including man. When I drove truck in the 1990s and early 2000s I could see the difference in the herds between before coyotes moved into an area and after. Before the deer would peacefully eat on the sides of the interstate roads and simply walk across the roads - motorists had time to stop (if they were paying attention). After coyotes moved into an area the deer would run and jump right in front of a vehicle and drivers had no chance to avoid the collision. The difference was like day and night. The deer vanished very quickly.
Do you think that they turned the cow over for the autopsy?
Dogs or coyotes would be my first guess as far as stress. The weather could be another factor?
One thing that can cause stress in my deer is coyotes. Deer fear coyotes more than any other predator including man. When I drove truck in the 1990s and early 2000s I could see the difference in the herds between before coyotes moved into an area and after. Before the deer would peacefully eat on the sides of the interstate roads and simply walk across the roads - motorists had time to stop (if they were paying attention). After coyotes moved into an area the deer would run and jump right in front of a vehicle and drivers had no chance to avoid the collision. The difference was like day and night. The deer vanished very quickly.
Do you think that they turned the cow over for the autopsy?
If youre using the pics Paul provided, the first pic was before an autopsy conducted shortly after the cow died. I think it was 2 hours, but I dont recall at the moment. The cause was said to be stress induced pneumonia, which can happen fast. (We lost at least 2 to that.) The mystery is what caused the stress when no other problems were found in the autopsy. I still do not think they used the same cow.
Other animals would freely take parts of a dead carcass, regardless of stage of decomp. Buzzards, for example. But there was not one sign of anything eating off of it, or so they say, nor were there any signs of poisoning in the animal they could dectect, but they only checked for specific things.
I wasnt aware you owned cattle...would you mind if I asked about 'insurance' coverage on livestock, primarily, would livestock insurance pay out for a 'cattle mutilation' case, or would the owner take it as a loss?
This is something Fisheye and I have been trying to figure out for some time.
I wrote software for insurance brokers back in the days when I was doing that kind of thing and the software was not bothered how you lost or how it died because it was all based on the farmers valuation of the animal. You paid a premium according to the valuation based on the historical risk associated with that loss. Of course, now things have probably changed and they may work out the premiums in a different way and this was not in the USA either. The insurers assumed that the farmers themselves knew how much a sheep was worth or a cow. There are so many things which could affect the value, different ages, breeds, etc. At the time, this seemed a very rough way to work out the premium, but that was how it was done in those days.
Insurers are probably not going to send out an assessor for one cow to check whether the farmer is claiming something he shouldn't. It will just raise the premiums for all farmers in the future if the insurers dont make shedloads of money like they are used to doing. If the farmer was unsure if the insurance would pay out he would probably claim that it got stuck in a ditch or something.
I wasnt aware you owned cattle...would you mind if I asked about 'insurance' coverage on livestock, primarily, would livestock insurance pay out for a 'cattle mutilation' case, or would the owner take it as a loss?
This is something Fisheye and I have been trying to figure out for some time.
I dont ever recall there being a "alien mutilation" clause of the policy(s) we had. We never had that problem either. Other did, but not use, but as I mentioned a while back, it was a couple of brothers looking for attention.
I wrote software for insurance brokers back in the days when I was doing that kind of thing and the software was not bothered how you lost or how it died because it was all based on the farmers valuation of the animal. You paid a premium according to the valuation based on the historical risk associated with that loss. Of course, now things have probably changed and they may work out the premiums in a different way and this was not in the USA either. The insurers assumed that the farmers themselves knew how much a sheep was worth or a cow. There are so many things which could affect the value, different ages, breeds, etc. At the time, this seemed a very rough way to work out the premium, but that was how it was done in those days.
Insurers are probably not going to send out an assessor for one cow to check whether the farmer is claiming something he shouldn't. It will just raise the premiums for all farmers in the future if the insurers dont make shedloads of money like they are used to doing. If the farmer was unsure if the insurance would pay out he would probably claim that it got stuck in a ditch or something.
"Limited mortality coverage would not see a benefit from the death of your livestock from conditions such as disease or other natural causes.
Full mortality coverage would protect the farm owner in the event of death from natural causes or accidental, as long as the nature of the death is not expressly excluded in the policy itself. This often includes injuries, theft, and loss of use protections."
So if a rancher lost six cows to the bloat from feeding on clover, then it might be worth claiming cattle mutilation by unknown people or creatures.
I dont ever recall there being a "alien mutilation" clause of the policy(s) we had. We never had that problem either. Other did, but not use, but as I mentioned a while back, it was a couple of brothers looking for attention.
No one has ever figured out whats causing the cattle mutilations though...there are a few theories, but so far, every case remains unsolved.
My thinking was, the insurance would not pay out, because the cause of death cannot be determined, that is just my best logical guess, since its insurance coverage and they tend to be sticklers for details and finding causes, especially before paying claims.
"In Washington County, Arkansas in 1979, the sheriff’s department conducted an experiment: It placed a dead cow in a field for 48 hours and found it looked a lot like the ostensibly mutilated ones. Bacterial bloating had caused its skin to tear in an incision-like manner similar to what had been described in some ranchers’ reports. Maggots and blowflies, meanwhile, had cleaned out the animal’s organs."
Many of you are running around screaming the sky is falling - but you have done no testing to see what happens when a cow dies. You want to point your finger at our government or little green men and that has never been proven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62
My thinking was, the insurance would not pay out, because the cause of death cannot be determined, that is just my best logical guess, since its insurance coverage and they tend to be sticklers for details and finding causes, especially before paying claims.
So you think that everybody that suffers a financial loss will never try to collect on an insurance policy? People try all the time. Of course, it does not mean they will get paid. But we do not know if any rancher has ever been paid for an "unknown mutilation" of their livestock. That is why we want more information.
"Limited mortality coverage would not see a benefit from the death of your livestock from conditions such as disease or other natural causes.
Full mortality coverage would protect the farm owner in the event of death from natural causes or accidental, as long as the nature of the death is not expressly excluded in the policy itself. This often includes injuries, theft, and loss of use protections."
So if a rancher lost six cows to the bloat from feeding on clover, then it might be worth claiming cattle mutilation by unknown people or creatures.
IIRC, our policy covered the animals market value at time of death. There were things that were covered, things that werent. For instance, calf and/or cow dying at birth. That wasnt covered, animal falls over dead from a heart attack, not covered, animal gets scooped up by a tornado, not covered. Animal hit by a car after escaping, gets a cut from a bull, or gored with a horn, or falls in a hole and breaks a leg - covered. We only lost maybe 4 cows that I recall, but we didnt have many to start with, at most 50 head. We lost 2 to birth defects, but they were calves, 1 to pneumonia, and one to getting out and fell in the creek and broke her legs on her right side. Vet had to confirm the pneumonia and broke legs, and had to have pics of animal being buried before insurance would cover either. Sad part is we could have butchered the one with broken legs and had steaks for dinner. The payout and cost of meat were about the same then, but we were not in a position at the time to have her butchered.
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