Alien spaceships and the speed of light (UFO, conspiracy, aliens)

[ocpaul20]

Science is meant to start with witness testimony and then progress through hypotheses to experiments to repeatable experiments which demonstrate "laws". These are only relevant IF we are considering the 3D world we know at the moment. As soon as we start to consider other dimensions and realities all "laws" are off the table and we have to start again using our expanded awareness.

There is physics which the public are aware of and there is physics which the military is aware of. These two are miles apart and so assertions from someone who knows only a limited subset of what humanity has discovered is not really "in the know" of what is currently possible.

If we encouraged our scientists (with funding) to investigate the mysterious further, (Skinwalker Ranch?) then we may find out more and widen our knowledge. As it is we are severely blinkered - as can be seen from this thread.

There are HUGE holes in our science which have yet to be filled and maybe, just maybe there will be answers to the power question and the travel FTL question when we turn our attention to those topics.

These two recently posted threads show areas mainstream science has ignored or overlooked.
Link 1 (electronics and energy from the vacuum)
Link 2 (Electromagnetic pulses and plasma technology weapons)

[NatesDude]

Originally Posted by Mircea

Congratulations for your False Dilemma Fallacy.

Extra-terrestrials are under no obligation to come from other galaxies, nor are they obligated to travel throughout the universe.

Your government believes as I believe, that they come from our very own Milky Way and specifically from the same region of the Milky Way as Earth, meaning this part of the spiral arm of the Milky Way.

Lest you forget, there are 10,000 G-, K- and M-Class Stars within 50 light years of Earth and the formation of all G-, K-, and M-Class Stars results in the creation of terrestrial planets and the ability to support life.

Extra-terrestrials need not over come the issue of "speed of light limitations."

They only need to achieve speeds fast enough for reasonable travel.

Logic dictates that all extra-terrestrial vehicles can travel at least 40,000 MPH, since that is the speed necessary to escape the gravitational pull of solar systems with G-, K-, and M-Class Stars.

Granted, that is a far cry from the 670 Million MPH that is the speed of light, but there is no law that says if you can't travel at the speed of light you have to sit in a corner and sulk.

Doesn't NASA use the Earth, Moon and Mars to accelerate the speed of their spacecraft?

Yes, they do/have.

Why couldn't extra-terrestrials use their own sun to accelerate their spacecraft?

According to NASA, they can, and they can use solar systems, neutron stars and black holes.

They won't reach the speed of light, but then, they don't have to. They just have to reach a speed that is conducive to space travel.

Consider the black triangle ETVs have a frequency of 20-22 years.

Assuming they can travel at half the speed of light, that suggests their home world is 10-11 light years away.

Or maybe 20-22 light years away, they just signal their home world upon departure and more ETVs are sent to Earth and they exchange data en route so they can follow up on whatever it was they were doing here.

I wasn’t aware that the US government or NASA believed in the existence of extra terrestrials and had determined their location to be the local spiral arm. Can you give a link to that ?

[Clark Fork Fantast]

Originally Posted by NCSweettea

For one they can harness the energy of stars which is mind blowing, 1 second of our dubs energy can generate enough energy for the entire earth for 1 billion years!

Many think they travel from parallel universes etc.

Also many theorize they are our future ancestors aka time travelers. In one of the most documented cases ever a military sergeant was given a code in his brain. He wrote the code down on a scrap paper only to forget about it until years later he mentioned it. After an investigation was initiated, years later, specialists were able to crack the code. It stated:

We are from the year 8100, we are your future ancestors, we are not here to harm you.”

Yes, that's my favorite theory: That would be our future descendants, right? We are their ancestors. They come from our own future; their heads have grown huge (I pity the birth canal of future women) or they have bypassed the birthing process. They live underground and have lost the ability for their skin to process sunlight (they are Greys). They travel back to the time of their ancestors, us, to secure genetic material for their dying race (the abductions), and they take along a couple of cow and sheep samples whenever they can (cattle mutilations), or just to confuse us. And because of the grandfather paradox, they have already interfered with their own timeline and improved their chances of survival (otherwise they would have stopped coming, and we wouldn't even have any memories of them ever having been here. I think. Hmmm...). OR they create new timelines whenever they visit, and spin us off into a different future.

What I want to know is, do they still have dogs in 8100?

[guidoLaMoto]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Maybe they just "beam" themselves from one place to another.

Quantum Tunneling...The electon in a H atom is expected with high probablity to be in that little S orbit near the proton, but, just by chance, it might suddenly appear in the next room on the other side of that brick wall. How did it get there? Did it pass thru the brick wall?...Nobody knows, but the numbers say there's some definite, although very small chance that's where it is.

But you can't translate phenomenon that occur on the quantum level to the macro level-- The odds of moving ALL the electrons, protons etc etc thru the wall and re-assembling them in just the right spots simutaneously is too small to contemplate. Some of us would call it impossible.

Originally Posted by NCSweettea

For one they can harness the energy of stars which is mind blowing, 1 second of our dubs energy can generate enough energy for the entire earth for 1 billion years!

Many think they travel from parallel universes etc.

Also many theorize they are our future ancestors aka time travelers. In one of the most documented cases ever a military sergeant was given a code in his brain. He wrote the code down on a scrap paper only to forget about it until years later he mentioned it. After an investigation was initiated, years later, specialists were able to crack the code. It stated:

We are from the year 8100, we are your future ancestors, we are not here to harm you.”

Why is it if someone tells us there's 40 quadriullion squintillion stars in the universe, we believe them, but if we see a sign "Wet Paint," we gotta touch it?

maybe we shoud put more faith in the most probable and less in the least.

[Toxic Waltz]

Without giving an opinion either way about whether we've been visited or not, I'd ask this. Why would we have to understand how a species more advanced than us travelled faster than light? It's up to them to understand it for them to do it, we only have to understand it if or when we expect to do it. The notion that if we can't explain it at our current state of development, then they can't do it at any stage of development doesn't make sense to me.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by NatesDude

I am curious how those who believe aliens are visiting us think they have overcome the speed of light limitations of travel throughout the universe . Given that it would take dozens to hundreds of years to travel even one way from our nearest neighbors unless this limitation is overcome , and the same to return home with whatever info they have gleaned from their visit , how are they getting around this quickly ? And given that the energy needed to approach the speed of light becomes enormous as you reach any meaningful percentage of the SoL , how are they powering themselves for decades long trips? And feeding themselves on these long long journeys ?

I’m just curious how those who believe this is happening have worked out the necessary logistics for hundreds of millions of MPH trips 24/7/365 nonstop for dozens of years .

Go back 200 years and tell people you can fly in a jet from NY to London in time for dinner.

You make a lot of assumptions as to where the technology of a civilization might be that is even a few thousand or million years of head of us might be.

P.S. My grandfather was born into a world without cars or airplanes or phones or electricity in the home etc. etc. etc. things change fast.

[NatesDude]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

Go back 200 years and tell people you can fly in a jet from NY to London in time for dinner.

You make a lot of assumptions as to where the technology of a civilization might be that is even a few thousand or million years of head of us might be.

P.S. My grandfather was born into a world without cars or airplanes or phones or electricity in the home etc. etc. etc. things change fast.

You are confusing scientific progress with violating known and tested laws of physics . The two are not the same . Flying didn’t violate any laws of physics . We could watch heavy and large birds fly and envision the possibility . Accelerating a spaceship to FTL violates tested physics.

[NatesDude]

Originally Posted by Mircea

Congratulations for your False Dilemma Fallacy.

Extra-terrestrials are under no obligation to come from other galaxies, nor are they obligated to travel throughout the universe.

Your government believes as I believe, that they come from our very own Milky Way and specifically from the same region of the Milky Way as Earth, meaning this part of the spiral arm of the Milky Way.

Lest you forget, there are 10,000 G-, K- and M-Class Stars within 50 light years of Earth and the formation of all G-, K-, and M-Class Stars results in the creation of terrestrial planets and the ability to support life.

Extra-terrestrials need not over come the issue of "speed of light limitations."

They only need to achieve speeds fast enough for reasonable travel.

Logic dictates that all extra-terrestrial vehicles can travel at least 40,000 MPH, since that is the speed necessary to escape the gravitational pull of solar systems with G-, K-, and M-Class Stars.

Granted, that is a far cry from the 670 Million MPH that is the speed of light, but there is no law that says if you can't travel at the speed of light you have to sit in a corner and sulk.

Doesn't NASA use the Earth, Moon and Mars to accelerate the speed of their spacecraft?

Yes, they do/have.

Why couldn't extra-terrestrials use their own sun to accelerate their spacecraft?

According to NASA, they can, and they can use solar systems, neutron stars and black holes.

They won't reach the speed of light, but then, they don't have to. They just have to reach a speed that is conducive to space travel.

Consider the black triangle ETVs have a frequency of 20-22 years.

Assuming they can travel at half the speed of light, that suggests their home world is 10-11 light years away.

Or maybe 20-22 light years away, they just signal their home world upon departure and more ETVs are sent to Earth and they exchange data en route so they can follow up on whatever it was they were doing here.

I went and looked a little more into this. I didn’t see anything about NASA believing there is advanced alien life in our part of the galaxy. What I did find was the latest ideas on how many advanced civilizations scientists think might exist our galaxy, and research suggest about 36. Sort of a strange number but it is based on spotting likely habitable planets and then some other factors . Of these 36 , they think that they are spread out so that none are closer than 17,000 light years to each other . No typo, seventeen thousand light years . So according to theoretical science into alien life , the odds are nil that any exist close enough to get here except by having conquered the FTL problem .



I also recall reading somewhere that we could see out to about 40 light years to detect local inhabitable planets . At 50% of c this puts a one way trip at about 80 years, not counting acceleration and deceleration. So round trips to study and experiment on us seem to be at least 165 year trips at a minimum.

[Mark S.]

Originally Posted by NatesDude

I didn’t see anything about NASA believing there is advanced alien life in our part of the galaxy.

There is no collective mind at NASA. NASA is made up of thousands of people. Some believe undoubtedly believe there is advanced alien life in our part of the galaxy. Others don't. Look hard enough and you'll probably even find a few people at NASA who believe Elvis clones are fighting the reptiloids in the Hollow Earth.

Originally Posted by NatesDude

I also recall reading somewhere that we could see out to about 40 light years to detect local inhabitable planets .

More of a semantic point than a scientific one, but we can't "see" any planets beyond our solar system. We can detect them. Am I splitting hairs? Maybe. But it's an important point.

https://astronomy.com/news/2021/08/a...r-solar-system

Kepler had 42 cameras on board, similar to the kind of smartphone camera that you use to take pictures. In that one region, the telescope detected more than 150,000 stars.

About every half-hour it observed the amount of light radiating from each star. Back here on Earth, a team of Kepler scientists analyzed the data.

For most stars, the amount of light stayed pretty much the same.

But for about 3,000 stars, the amount of light repeatedly decreased, by small amounts and for several hours. These drops in brightness happened at regular intervals, like clockwork.

The drops, astronomers concluded, were caused by a planet orbiting its star, periodically blocking some of the light that Kepler’s cameras would otherwise detect.

This event – when a planet passes between a star and its observer – is known as a transit.

And that means that in that one speck of space the Kepler telescope found 3,000 planets.

[rstevens62]

Originally Posted by NatesDude

Just out of curiosity, why are the far fetched explanations of how aliens could defy physics and get here more appealing than the overwhelming scientific probability that they aren’t getting here at all due to the laws of physics, and that some other explanation for what is being seen is more rational ?

They are ultra terrestrial...they reside somewhere on this planet...a place that is inaccessible to man.