Tiny mineral-flower structures on Mars (aliens, secret, light, government)
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NASA called this a mineral flower-like structure. so, what has the above got to do with flowering plants? And.. I have shown through NASA images that the place is NOT hostile to current life and there is surface water. Maybe you would like to comment on the individual images posted previously. Maybe they are all NASA image artifacts?
It seems that there are a number of people who are trying really, really hard to make us believe there is no life on Mars, and also a very few of us who are convinced there is. It is very difficult to argue there is NO life on Mars when the images show anomalous structures which should not be there on a barren inhospitable planet. Rocks do not grow in 'S'-shaped configurations. Liquid-like flows do not shoot out of holes in cliff-faces. Running liquid marks do not appear on the surface of a surface-waterless planet. Footprints do not appear after this liquid has flowed without there being something which moves around the surface. But...hey, maybe I am imagining the whole thing and I am the only one who needs to see a head-doctor.
Surely, the folks who are trying to convince us there is no current life have to show how these anomalous structures we are seeing are mere artifacts created over millions of years through the planetary processes. However, in order to do that they have to point to reasonable scientific explanations FOR THEM EXISTING in the same images scientists use to conduct research into Martian processes.
We dont conduct science by explaining why something cannot exist, science is for explaining how it exists. Science should investigate not close the topic down as total rubbish when there are multiple examples.
For the record, there has been an ongoing search for traces of life on Mars for some time. Los Alamos designed equipment that was deployed on Curiosity in 2012 for the express purpose of looking for traces of current and previous life. An updated and more sensitive instrument was on Perseverance when it landed on Mars last February and is still looking today. So far, nothing verifies or even is highly suggestive that there has been life on Mars. We will know more when we get to actually examine samples in person which will be possible in the near future. The search for life on Mars is real, extensive and is manned by a bunch of very capable people.
For the record, there has been an ongoing search for traces of life on Mars for some time. Los Alamos designed equipment that was deployed on Curiosity in 2012 for the express purpose of looking for traces of current and previous life. An updated and more sensitive instrument was on Perseverance when it landed on Mars last February and is still looking today. So far, nothing verifies or even is highly suggestive that there has been life on Mars. We will know more when we get to actually examine samples in person which will be possible in the near future. The search for life on Mars is real, extensive and is manned by a bunch of very capable people.
I have no doubt the government and NASA want to find any life out there if it exists. Mainly for the advances it could give us in weapons and other technology and the advantage it would give over enemies. Perhaps they dont want to announce it if they find it? Maybe the enemies would be better at cutting deals with them?
You know how the government spent years denying the existence of UFOs (and aliens) ? Well, this is just an extension on that.
You cannot have life being "discovered" on nearby planets if you have denied these things exist here. It is rather too close to Earth. So, with that in mind, I believe these capable people already know there is current life on Mars - and because the "problem" with disclosure has already been explained to them, they are not allowed to "find" life in the Solar System.
If they were really capable, and without restrictions, then they would examine the evidence found just like other scientists are supposed to do and see where the data takes them. In this case, the data would take them to the conclusion that life exists on Mars (and other places in the Solar System).
So the scientists who designed and are operating physical search-for-life instruments are not as capable as you at finding life on Mars from just looking at pictures, some provided by colleagues of those very same scientists? OK. Debate over. I defer to your superior sleuthing skills. Well done.
So the scientists who designed and are operating physical search-for-life instruments are not as capable as you at finding life on Mars from just looking at pictures, some provided by colleagues of those very same scientists? OK. Debate over. I defer to your superior sleuthing skills. Well done.
I have no doubt the government and NASA want to find any life out there if it exists. Mainly for the advances it could give us in weapons and other technology and the advantage it would give over enemies. Perhaps they dont want to announce it if they find it? Maybe the enemies would be better at cutting deals with them?
You know how the government spent years denying the existence of UFOs (and aliens) ? Well, this is just an extension on that.
You cannot have life being "discovered" on nearby planets if you have denied these things exist here. It is rather too close to Earth. So, with that in mind, I believe these capable people already know there is current life on Mars - and because the "problem" with disclosure has already been explained to them, they are not allowed to "find" life in the Solar System.
If they were really capable, and without restrictions, then they would examine the evidence found just like other scientists are supposed to do and see where the data takes them. In this case, the data would take them to the conclusion that life exists on Mars (and other places in the Solar System).
Paul, those are some very bold adamant statements and I can honestly say, you are the first person I have ever heard that believes that. I'm sure there are probably others out there that believe the same/similar things as well, but have never come across any during my time here on earth.
We go through this every time the governments and space agencies release new pictures. The believers have sworn that a block building, pyramid shape, blue berries, and Spinx head are proof of alien contact. Most of these have been explained when we get more pictures. Shadows have 'created' an illusion of a man-made object. Some people 'see' what they want to see. Blue berries and spirical glass beads can be created by natural forces.
If there was no life on Earth and life in our solar system lived on Mars or another planet and they sent out spacecraft to explore Earth; I could picture a group of them making the same observations that are expressed on this forum. The alien explorers would look at our basalt columns and conclude they had to be man-made and are proof of ancient aliens.
Nature has a few tricks and can produce many marvelous and mysterious objects on on its own.
I do agree with you on this topic, but odd, that Govt and the space agencies KEEP on doing this same thing time and time again. I just wonder if they know what they are doing and its intentional...
Sort of like the conclusion to the hyped up Congressional UFO/UAP report, they concluded the objects were not experimental/developmental aircraft or from another country...well duh, what did they think many citizens would take that as...'aliens' of course!!
The govt conclusion, being so vague, yet eliminating two of the main explanations that skeptics believe...that 'implies' aliens to MANY people. (the govt and NASA have to be aware of this...right?)
Paul, those are some very bold adamant statements and I can honestly say, you are the first person I have ever heard that believes that. I'm sure there are probably others out there that believe the same/similar things as well, but have never come across any during my time here on earth.
1) There are others who believe the governments of the world wants to find life. They have told us they do. Any government which does not take advantage of opportunities to advance their weapons technology is not going to be a super-power, is it? That is hardly a big revellation, it is obvious.
2) We already have (old) government sponsored reports which tell them the population is unable to handle the fact that alien life exists, (regardless of what we, ourselves believe) so it is likely the underlying cause of any 'policy' of denial the government has.
3) my statements are logical conclusions and based on the prior official statements and reports released. Hardly any "very bold adamant statements".
Seeing how I believe I see structures on Mars(for example) which are NOT natural erosion, weathering, or produced by any other natural environmental process, what other conclusion am I to come to - other than something else has happened there? Even over millions of years of natural erosion through environmental forces, I do not think these erosional forces would produce some of the stranger shapes and structures we see in the NASA images. Therefore I think they should be investigated or examined further, and I consider this one of the key objectives of folks we employ to do work for us(NASA)..
Now, on Earth when the NASA articles obviously contradict themselves, about water, about wind, etc and when they keep reminding us about life not being current but maybe existed millions of years ago. So, either they are not explaining the same current water features in the same way as I am, or there is some official 'policy' to deny in place. You have to admit that, it will not be the first time there is a policy of denial in place, so it is hardly a conspiracy theory since there is a precedent.
I think we have very capable scientists who are very restricted in movement and what they are able to say. Obviously scientists are human and have beliefs and opinions of their own, but all of these top scientists should, if they are doing their job correctly, investigate unknown, unexpected, or surprising data. So, I have to assume that they are resricted in some way from doing that. What other explanation is there for NOT investigating unknown, unexpected, or surprising data? I do not believe these top scientists would make statements of opinion or speculation on such important-to-mankind topics as life on other planets.
cjseliga, Rather than comment on WHAT I have said, maybe you comment on what I have SHOWN? Otherwise it looks as if you are unable (for whatever reason...) to have opinions of your own about these possibly controversial subjects. Since you have told us you are a scientist, act like one and start questioning the data rather than questioning the poster.
I do agree with you on this topic, but odd, that Govt and the space agencies KEEP on doing this same thing time and time again. I just wonder if they know what they are doing and its intentional...
Sort of like the conclusion to the hyped up Congressional UFO/UAP report, they concluded the objects were not experimental/developmental aircraft or from another country...well duh, what did they think many citizens would take that as...'aliens' of course!!
The govt conclusion, being so vague, yet eliminating two of the main explanations that skeptics believe...that 'implies' aliens to MANY people. (the govt and NASA have to be aware of this...right?)
You speak of our government like they are aliens. 'Normal' Americans make up our government. Some are believers in aliens and many are not. They have agreements and disagreements, just like we do. If a believer in Government echos their beliefs, you take it as a sign that our whole government agrees with that one employee or group of employees. You also overlook greed, when our government sides with believers because they will reap financial rewards or pick up supporting votes.
I like to believe in what I can see. I see no evidence of alien contact so far. I would think that if 'they' have been visiting, they would leave behind traces of their visits. And that is not just on this planet, but also on our moon and neighboring planets.
I do strongly agree that if life developed here, there is a very good chance that it evolved elsewhere. I also think that it might not have to be organic since we are learning more from our science every day. But the distances from one solar system to another are great and there are many challenges to travel in deep space. I do think that we will eventually send out AI probes because it is wise not to have all our eggs in one basket.
1) There are others who believe the governments of the world wants to find life. They have told us they do. Any government which does not take advantage of opportunities to advance their weapons technology is not going to be a super-power, is it? That is hardly a big revellation, it is obvious.
2) We already have (old) government sponsored reports which tell them the population is unable to handle the fact that alien life exists, (regardless of what we, ourselves believe) so it is likely the underlying cause of any 'policy' of denial the government has.
3) my statements are logical conclusions and based on the prior official statements and reports released. Hardly any "very bold adamant statements".
Seeing how I believe I see structures on Mars(for example) which are NOT natural erosion, weathering, or produced by any other natural environmental process, what other conclusion am I to come to - other than something else has happened there? Even over millions of years of natural erosion through environmental forces, I do not think these erosional forces would produce some of the stranger shapes and structures we see in the NASA images. Therefore I think they should be investigated or examined further, and I consider this one of the key objectives of folks we employ to do work for us(NASA)..
What other explanation is there for NOT investigating unknown, unexpected, or surprising data? I do not believe these top scientists would make statements of opinion or speculation on such important-to-mankind topics as life on other planets.
.
Advancing their weapons technology would require finding advanced intelligent life unless you mean a biological weapon based on a Martian microbe. There is no evidence that would justify thinking there is or was intelligent life on Mars except your interpretation of pictures and your conviction that there are Martians with superior weaponry hiding from our rovers and telescopes. The very absence of a mad rush by spacefaring nations to find sentient Martians is pretty compelling evidence itself that no Earth government takes that possibility seriously.
I hope I live to see intelligent extraterrestrial life found but I'm not hanging my hat on it being found on Mars. That's yours. I'll take the stars.
I enjoy discussing our differing opinions but, so far, despite the joy it would bring me, I just don't see any evidence that would urge me to even consider that intelligent life has ever existed on Mars. For the record, I am not part of a secret conspiracy to deny obvious evidence.
1) There are others who believe the governments of the world wants to find life. They have told us they do. Any government which does not take advantage of opportunities to advance their weapons technology is not going to be a super-power, is it? That is hardly a big revellation, it is obvious.
2) We already have (old) government sponsored reports which tell them the population is unable to handle the fact that alien life exists, (regardless of what we, ourselves believe) so it is likely the underlying cause of any 'policy' of denial the government has.
3) my statements are logical conclusions and based on the prior official statements and reports released. Hardly any "very bold adamant statements".
Seeing how I believe I see structures on Mars(for example) which are NOT natural erosion, weathering, or produced by any other natural environmental process, what other conclusion am I to come to - other than something else has happened there? Even over millions of years of natural erosion through environmental forces, I do not think these erosional forces would produce some of the stranger shapes and structures we see in the NASA images. Therefore I think they should be investigated or examined further, and I consider this one of the key objectives of folks we employ to do work for us(NASA)..
Now, on Earth when the NASA articles obviously contradict themselves, about water, about wind, etc and when they keep reminding us about life not being current but maybe existed millions of years ago. So, either they are not explaining the same current water features in the same way as I am, or there is some official 'policy' to deny in place. You have to admit that, it will not be the first time there is a policy of denial in place, so it is hardly a conspiracy theory since there is a precedent.
I think we have very capable scientists who are very restricted in movement and what they are able to say. Obviously scientists are human and have beliefs and opinions of their own, but all of these top scientists should, if they are doing their job correctly, investigate unknown, unexpected, or surprising data. So, I have to assume that they are resricted in some way from doing that. What other explanation is there for NOT investigating unknown, unexpected, or surprising data? I do not believe these top scientists would make statements of opinion or speculation on such important-to-mankind topics as life on other planets.
cjseliga, Rather than comment on WHAT I have said, maybe you comment on what I have SHOWN? Otherwise it looks as if you are unable (for whatever reason...) to have opinions of your own about these possibly controversial subjects. Since you have told us you are a scientist, act like one and start questioning the data rather than questioning the poster.
Paul, I have told you over and over I believe it is just erosion and natural events, I don't believe anything that you believe with regards to Mars, unless you believe there might be microbes on Mars, that I believe is a possibility. Funny how a non-scientist is telling a scientist what and what not to do!
I have a question for you. So what about all of these scientists that have dedicated their lives (20 or 30+ years) trying to invent detectors/equipment/cameras to try and prove there was life on Mars or there might be life on Mars currently. Are they all a part of the conspiracy or "in the know" on what you and NASA already know or are they also "left in the dark" and just wasting their lives in trying to prove something that you and NASA already know; either way, I find that as a scientist both comical and sad, that you would believe that?
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