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Old 12-11-2012, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 61,434,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
There is very little violence. However, whenever there is an incident it gets blown out of all proportion by the media. Some of the stories my wife tells me about Fenway Park in the 1970s makes soccer violence appear tame.
So are you saying that there is not more violence at UK football games than there is at US football games?
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:52 AM
 
Location: England
3,261 posts, read 3,717,829 times
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You say in your post that that I don't know anything about American football Katherine and you maybe right, what I do know, and the point I was trying make, is that there is less than 15 minutes of actual on the ball action in an NFL game. If you disagree then prove me wrong.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:58 AM
 
Location: London, UK
54 posts, read 59,883 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albion View Post
You say in your post that that I don't know anything about American football Katherine and you maybe right, what I do know, and the point I was trying make, is that there is less than 15 minutes of actual on the ball action in an NFL game. If you disagree then prove me wrong.
You're correct. So what? I read somewhere that the average Wimbledon men's final is 2.5 hours with ball in play of 18 minutes.. who cares if the ball is actually in play or not? Entertainment is more than that.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 61,434,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albion View Post
You say in your post that that I don't know anything about American football Katherine and you maybe right, what I do know, and the point I was trying make, is that there is less than 15 minutes of actual on the ball action in an NFL game. If you disagree then prove me wrong.
You are wrong. There is fifteen minutes PER quarter of actual ball action. That comes to one hour of "action" per game.

From the official NFL link:
Quote:
TIMING
Games are divided into four 15-minute quarters, separated by a 12-minute break at halftime. There are also 2-minute breaks at the end of the first and third quarters as teams change ends of the field after every 15 minutes of play. At the end of the first and third quarters, the team with the ball retains possession heading into the following quarter. That is not the case before halftime. The second half starts with a kickoff in the same way as the game began in the first quarter.

Each offensive team has 40 seconds from the end of a given play until they must snap of the ball for the start of the next play, otherwise they will be penalized.

The clock stops at the end of incomplete passing plays, when a player goes out of bounds, or when a penalty is called. The clock starts again when the ball is re-spotted by an official.

If a game is tied at the end of regulation, a 15-minute overtime period will be played. In the NFL, this is sudden death and the first team to score wins. Possession is determined before the period begins by a coin toss.
NFL Beginner's Guide to Football
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 61,434,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoReservations View Post
You're correct. So what? I read somewhere that the average Wimbledon men's final is 2.5 hours with ball in play of 18 minutes.. who cares if the ball is actually in play or not? Entertainment is more than that.

LOL to the comparison with Wimbledon, but actually there is an hour of "ball action" per NFL game - more if the game goes into overtime!
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:34 PM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,981,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
So are you saying that there is not more violence at UK football games than there is at US football games?
I haven't been to enough NFL games to be able to say yea or nay. But I have been to enough soccer games to say that there is very little trouble at them.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:37 PM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,981,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
You are wrong. There is fifteen minutes PER quarter of actual ball action. That comes to one hour of "action" per game.

From the official NFL link:

NFL Beginner's Guide to Football
That isn't actually true. The game clock does not stop after every play. It only stops when a pass is incomplete or a receiver/runner goes out of bounds. So the game clock can be running when there is no action happening on the field. Indeed, teams often run the game clock down by waiting for as long as possible before snapping the ball.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 61,434,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
I haven't been to enough NFL games to be able to say yea or nay. But I have been to enough soccer games to say that there is very little trouble at them.
I understand that you're using anecdotal evidence. Actual police reports indicate that though football hooliganism is on the decline in the UK, it remains a problem -and until the 2000s it was a SIGNIFICANT problem - still is in many parts of the world.

May I recommend a truly interesting book?
How Soccer Explains the World: An Unlikely Theory of Globalization: Franklin Foer: 9780061978050: Amazon.com: Books

I read this a few years ago and I enjoyed the insight into an unfamiliar game and cultural norms and expecations -and written by a soccer fan himself. It's not anti soccer at all, but explains cultural differences very succinctly.

From the reviews:
Quote:
Amazon.com Review
The global power of soccer might be a little hard for Americans, living in a country that views the game with the same skepticism used for the metric system and the threat of killer bees, to grasp fully. But in Europe, South America, and elsewhere, soccer is not merely a pastime but often an expression of the social, economic, political, and racial composition of the communities that host both the teams and their throngs of enthusiastic fans. New Republic editor Franklin Foer, a lifelong devotee of soccer dating from his own inept youth playing days to an adulthood of obsessive fandom, examines soccer's role in various cultures as a means of examining the reach of globalization. Foer's approach is long on soccer reportage, providing extensive history and fascinating interviews on the Rangers-Celtic rivalry and the inner workings of AC Milan, and light on direct discussion of issues like world trade and the exportation of Western culture. But by creating such a compelling narrative of soccer around the planet, Foer draws the reader into these sport-mad societies, and subtly provides the explanations he promises in chapters with titles like "How Soccer Explains the New Oligarchs", "How Soccer Explains Islam's Hope", and "How Soccer Explains the Sentimental Hooligan." Foer's own passion for the game gives his book an infectious energy but still pales in comparison to the religious fervor of his subjects. His portraits of legendary hooligans in Serbia and Britain, in particular, make the most die-hard roughneck New York Yankees fan look like a choirboy in comparison. Beyond the thugs, Foer also profiles Nigerian players living in the Ukraine, Iranian women struggling against strict edicts to attend matches, and the parallel worlds of Brazilian soccer and politics from which Pele emerged and returned. Foer posits that globalization has eliminated neither local cultural identities nor violent hatred among fans of rival teams, and it has not washed out local businesses in a sea of corporate wealth nor has it quelled rampant local corruption. Readers with an interest in international economics are sure to like How Soccer Explains the World, but soccer fans will love it. --John Moe --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
From Publishers Weekly
Foer, a New Republic editor, scores a game-winning goal with this analysis of the interchange between soccer and the new global economy. The subtitle is a bit misleading, though: he doesn't really use soccer to develop a theory; instead, he focuses on how examining soccer in different countries allows us to understand how international forces affect politics and life around the globe. The book is full of colorful reporting, strong characters and insightful analysis: In one of the most compelling chapters, Foer shows how a soccer thug in Serbia helped to organize troops who committed atrocities in the Balkan War—by the end of the war, the thug's men, with the acquiescence of Serbian leaders, had killed at least 2,000 Croats and Bosnians. Then he bought his own soccer club and, before he was gunned down in 2000, intimidated other teams into losing. Most of the stories aren't as gruesome, but they're equally fascinating. The crude hatred, racism and anti-Semitism on display in many soccer stadiums is simply amazing, and Foer offers context for them, including how current economic conditions are affecting these manifestations. In Scotland, the management of some teams have kept religious hatreds alive in order to sell tickets and team merchandise. But Foer, a diehard soccer enthusiast, is no anti-globalist. In Iran, for example, he depicts how soccer works as a modernizing force: thousands of women forced police to allow them into a men's-only stadium to celebrate the national team's triumph in an international match. One doesn't have to be a soccer fan to truly appreciate this absorbing book.
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 61,434,248 times
Reputation: 101146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
That isn't actually true. The game clock does not stop after every play. It only stops when a pass is incomplete or a receiver/runner goes out of bounds. So the game clock can be running when there is no action happening on the field. Indeed, teams often run the game clock down by waiting for as long as possible before snapping the ball.
You're splitting hairs. There are fifteen minutes of on the field action per quarter. The vast majority of that time, the ball is in action. It's the exception, not the norm, for teams to run the clock down - and even so, it's only a matter of seconds that they are given to do so in nearly every case. They usually have just a few seconds to actually move the ball each play. And WHEN they are doing so, it's a matter of strategy, which is interesting to fans who understand that this is a strategic move.

I have seen teams standing around at the very end of a game for the thirty seconds or so, when there is absolutely no way for a comeback and the outcome of the game is already clear. But even that's an exception. Teams usually pound the field (and each other) vigorously till the very last few seconds.

My point is that the ball is IN ACTION for MUCH MORE than fifteen minutes per game. Come on, man!


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Old 12-11-2012, 12:55 PM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,981,245 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I understand that you're using anecdotal evidence. Actual police reports indicate that though football hooliganism is on the decline in the UK, it remains a problem -and until the 2000s it was a SIGNIFICANT problem - still is in many parts of the world.

May I recommend a truly interesting book?
How Soccer Explains the World: An Unlikely Theory of Globalization: Franklin Foer: 9780061978050: Amazon.com: Books

I read this a few years ago and I enjoyed the insight into an unfamiliar game and cultural norms and expecations -and written by a soccer fan himself. It's not anti soccer at all, but explains cultural differences very succinctly.

From the reviews:
I have been to a great many Rangers v Celtic matches which is supposed to be one of the bitterest rivalries around. At one of the more controversial matches which was played in March 2011, there were just 34 arrests in a crowd of 60,000. Of those arrests, only one was for assault and that was 'assault by spitting'. The others were alcohol related or 'breach of the peace' which usually means shouting offensive things.

I am not suggesting that thuggery and hooliganism does not exist. It exists the world over and not just around soccer. What I am telling you is that its prevalence is grossly overstated and that you can go to soccer matches with absolutely no fear for your safety.

You can believe me or not. That is your right. But I will continue to go to matches until I am no longer able. Indeed, my mother had a season ticket for Rangers until she was 85 and it was only when Parkinsons began to get the better of her did she give it up.
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