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Old 10-26-2011, 10:18 AM
 
1,251 posts, read 2,503,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
You sure they are not only on the outskirts of the burbs? I don't think they are integrated in suburbs as you would like to think.
I'm sure. There are commuter rail stations that run through the downtown/main street areas of suburbs of the metro where I live.
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
5,523 posts, read 13,895,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Stereotypes, stereotypes, stereotypes.

Here's the metra schedule. You can play with it. Also note transit links. Most suburban stations have Park 'n Rides where you can leave your car. Also, most suburbs, as most cities, are safe to walk in.

Metra System Map

Here is a map of the Chicago suburb where my in-laws lived. Note the sidewalks. They're even the old-fashioned kind, with a strip of land between the sidewalk and the street.

la grange il - Google Maps
The problem with reverse commuting is that even if the suburban Metra stations are in walkable old downtown areas, the vast majority of jobs in the suburbs are not located in the historic depot downtowns but at distant suburban office parks, or malls, hospitals, etc. For example, I reverse commute outbound on the Metra every day, but then I'm forced to drive from the Metra station to my office (I permanently keep a car at the exurb station just for this use.) Most commuters aren't able to do this for obvious reasons. I see a handful of bicyclists who bike the last few miles from Metra to work. A few lucky ones do work in the suburban downtown area.

There is a somewhat spotty suburban bus system which sometimes can be used to get from Metra to work. But, like Metra itself, the suburban bus schedules are optimized to funnel suburbanites to the Metra to get to downtown Chicago in the morning and back in the afternoon rather than the reverse.

This could be solved by better planning and land-use. If the current auto-dependent lifestyle becomes unsustainable (I'm not holding my breathe), employers will naturally congregate in transit-accesable areas, primarily the Loop, but also near other Metra stations. Obviously a better suburban bus system would help as well.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,259,082 times
Reputation: 35920
^^Yes, well, rail does not meet all needs.
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,693 posts, read 15,610,182 times
Reputation: 4054
Quote:
Originally Posted by oakparkdude View Post
The problem with reverse commuting is that even if the suburban Metra stations are in walkable old downtown areas, the vast majority of jobs in the suburbs are not located in the historic depot downtowns but at distant suburban office parks, or malls, hospitals, etc. For example, I reverse commute outbound on the Metra every day, but then I'm forced to drive from the Metra station to my office (I permanently keep a car at the exurb station just for this use.) Most commuters aren't able to do this for obvious reasons. I see a handful of bicyclists who bike the last few miles from Metra to work. A few lucky ones do work in the suburban downtown area.

There is a somewhat spotty suburban bus system which sometimes can be used to get from Metra to work. But, like Metra itself, the suburban bus schedules are optimized to funnel suburbanites to the Metra to get to downtown Chicago in the morning and back in the afternoon rather than the reverse.

This could be solved by better planning and land-use. If the current auto-dependent lifestyle becomes unsustainable (I'm not holding my breathe), employers will naturally congregate in transit-accesable areas, primarily the Loop, but also near other Metra stations. Obviously a better suburban bus system would help as well.
Wow...a lot of work leaving your car at the station. D.C. is different in that many suburban jobs are along metro corridors making reverse commuting very easy. Many jobs are walking distance from a metro station. Having great suburban bus systems in D.C. helps too but the focus of jobs around transit makes commuting to work very easy.
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:12 PM
 
Location: The City
22,379 posts, read 38,716,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
Wow...a lot of work leaving your car at the station. D.C. is different in that many suburban jobs are along metro corridors making reverse commuting very easy. Many jobs are walking distance from a metro station. Having great suburban bus systems in D.C. helps too but the focus of jobs around transit makes commuting to work very easy.
This is another aspect of DC transit and planning/development that is beneficial. Another huge difference is that many of these DC centers are newer than many other metros with considerable development and a large transit network. It also seems that Denver is doing this on their new line from what I have read though have not experienced this area first hand.

Many other suburban transit centers go into older (sometimes 100-200 year old) suburban town centers that were heavy residential and a retail town center and not where the jobs are in the office parks of the periphery of these towns. The main line in Philly is a great regional rail line that people walk to from their homes and travela along route 30 in the western burbs but there is littel commercial or room for it let alone SEVERE nybyism that thwarts such development. Another larger scale new project in Wawa PA at the Regional rail station for a large scale denser commercial/residential/retail center has been Nymyed to death and now is just a Wegnmans and glorified strip mall based on the latest plan. Is a shame to waste the development opportunity and good transit infrastructure.
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:51 PM
 
3,695 posts, read 4,966,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
Wow...a lot of work leaving your car at the station. D.C. is different in that many suburban jobs are along metro corridors making reverse commuting very easy. Many jobs are walking distance from a metro station. Having great suburban bus systems in D.C. helps too but the focus of jobs around transit makes commuting to work very easy.
DC Metro seems to be more like Chicago's EL than Metra.

The EL has some stations in the near burbs and the near burbs may have both PACE and CTA bus routes. The near burbs tend to be older and less auto centric (they were street car burbs). Only problem with the EL is that it does not leave the City on the south side nor get all the close on the far south side(Orange line serves south west side) plus the red line lacks parking at it's stations. Metra winds up picking up some of the slack here.

Anyway the EL directly serves the burbs of Oak Park, Forrest Park, Cicero, Skokie, Evanston---all of which are very near burbs to Chicago, only forrest park does not share a boarder with Chicago. Parts of the Blue and Orange lines are near the border of Chicago and so can serve the burbs also.

PACE is the suburban bus system and they can be described as clean and on time, but lacking in service frequency and coverage at times. There are PACE bus routes that shut down like about 6:30 or so pm. CTA may not be as clean nor as on time, but they have more service and generally don't shutdown quite as early(i.e. Most CTA routes run till like around 10pm-Midnight or so).

By far the big problem with going car free in the Chicago burbs is not rail, but bus and sidewalks. I also wonder if a light rail system would have worked better for the Purple line and Yellow, esp. if it went deeper into the burbs. I also lament the loss of the weschester line. It would have gone furter into the west burbs, but at the time the CTA took over the area was still not heavily populated and changed very shortly after service was withdrawn there in the 50ies.
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,693 posts, read 15,610,182 times
Reputation: 4054
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
This is another aspect of DC transit and planning/development that is beneficial. Another huge difference is that many of these DC centers are newer than many other metros with considerable development and a large transit network. It also seems that Denver is doing this on their new line from what I have read though have not experienced this area first hand.

Many other suburban transit centers go into older (sometimes 100-200 year old) suburban town centers that were heavy residential and a retail town center and not where the jobs are in the office parks of the periphery of these towns. The main line in Philly is a great regional rail line that people walk to from their homes and travela along route 30 in the western burbs but there is littel commercial or room for it let alone SEVERE nybyism that thwarts such development. Another larger scale new project in Wawa PA at the Regional rail station for a large scale denser commercial/residential/retail center has been Nymyed to death and now is just a Wegnmans and glorified strip mall based on the latest plan. Is a shame to waste the development opportunity and good transit infrastructure.
Nimbys ruin everything! They don't know what smart growth is.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,693 posts, read 15,610,182 times
Reputation: 4054
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
DC Metro seems to be more like Chicago's EL than Metra.

The EL has some stations in the near burbs and the near burbs may have both PACE and CTA bus routes. The near burbs tend to be older and less auto centric (they were street car burbs). Only problem with the EL is that it does not leave the City on the south side nor get all the close on the far south side(Orange line serves south west side) plus the red line lacks parking at it's stations. Metra winds up picking up some of the slack here.

Anyway the EL directly serves the burbs of Oak Park, Forrest Park, Cicero, Skokie, Evanston---all of which are very near burbs to Chicago, only forrest park does not share a boarder with Chicago. Parts of the Blue and Orange lines are near the border of Chicago and so can serve the burbs also.

PACE is the suburban bus system and they can be described as clean and on time, but lacking in service frequency and coverage at times. There are PACE bus routes that shut down like about 6:30 or so pm. CTA may not be as clean nor as on time, but they have more service and generally don't shutdown quite as early(i.e. Most CTA routes run till like around 10pm-Midnight or so).

By far the big problem with going car free in the Chicago burbs is not rail, but bus and sidewalks. I also wonder if a light rail system would have worked better for the Purple line and Yellow, esp. if it went deeper into the burbs. I also lament the loss of the weschester line. It would have gone furter into the west burbs, but at the time the CTA took over the area was still not heavily populated and changed very shortly after service was withdrawn there in the 50ies.
I guess metro is DC's answer to not being able to annex the land surrounding it. In other cities, the whole system would still be in city limits. DC is just so small.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,259,082 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
I guess metro is DC's answer to not being able to annex the land surrounding it. In other cities, the whole system would still be in city limits. DC is just so small.
??? The Metra is all over the Chicago area. Take a look at the map I posted.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:30 PM
 
4,361 posts, read 7,141,423 times
Reputation: 4866
Portland, OR has a great mixed modality system that reaches well into its suburbs also. They even have a sky tram.
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