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I'm curious about what specific changes people would like to see in the more auto-dependent suburbs to make them more environmentally friendly.
1) Increase the population density of these areas.
2) Improve public transit.
3) Make these areas more walkable (subdivided into making walking easier and
having stores worth walking to).
I'd advocate walkability and "free"/cheap parking scarcity simultaneously before 1) or 2). Depending on the area, I might not advocate increases in density, as it might not be appropriate for the neighborhood at the time; Mission Viejo, for example, is a massive designed suburb, but it's distance from the CBD and other factors give it low priority for directing concerted densification efforts.
I still don't understand why there's this insistence that most couples or singles are living in large apartments or houses. As someone who has rented (and looked at) a lot of places over the years, I just don't think that's true. Most older apartments aren't that huge, and I don't think most new buildings are, either. Our one bedrooms ranged from 540 to 700 square feet, which I think is likely fairly typical. I don't think it's urban singles and couples driving up the nation's increasing housing space requirements, although yes, I'm sure some of them have more space than they "need," especially those who have purchased and are thinking ahead towards family additions. In any case, I certainly see no reason to assume that most people on this thread have more than 400 square feet per person, particularly those living in cities. I'm sure some do, but there's no evidence to make an assumption that "most" do.
Also for what it's worth, the most sprawling of the suburbs often don't HAVE apartment buildings -- they are zoned for strictly large single family homes. Obviously the singles or couples in those places would be floating around in space. And for those in suburbs who live in apartment buildings, I don't think their spaces are particularly big, usually. At least the ones I've seen haven't been. I suppose there's probably not the demand. If you start needing, say, 3-BRs or a living room AND a family room (and can afford to pay for it) then you just rent a house.
And that, actually, is one of my pet peeves in some urban areas (but not major big city center urban areas); the idea that all families WANT to live in a freestanding single-family house, so if you want to live in a 3-BR apartment you find that there's very little available on the market. We just have one kid and so don't need that much space, but if you're a larger family then that could be an issue. I'm guessing that the desire for space (not enormous square footage, just the ability not to have to squeeze four kids into one small bedroom) does drive some families to more suburban areas even if they'd prefer to stay in their more urban neighborhood. So I do think adding "more variety of housing types for different sizes and forms of today's families" (including those with multiple generations under one roof) would be a valid addition to a list of things that would make it more feasible for some suburban residents to live in a city. When we thought we were going to live in Manhattan, for example, we had no problem, as a (small) 2-BR was totally doable in our budget. If we'd had to add another bedroom (or just any more square footage in any other form) we'd have been totally priced out, though. Many families are willing to live with small square footage, but there is a tipping point.
Last edited by uptown_urbanist; 06-07-2012 at 12:02 PM..
Large 3+ bedroom apartments in cities are a chicken-and-egg problem, like so many other city problems: their numbers are limited because there is supposedly low demand, but the demand is low because the supply is limited. Although a lot of larger "condo" spaces could be modified to add another bedroom or two by taking a slice out of a "great room" or using a dining room as an office.
Subdivisions zone strictly for large single-family homes to avoid having poor people live there--but in a lot of places those are being turned into ersatz multi-household housing. For students or those who couldn't otherwise to live there, it is often the only option. People adapt.
Although a lot of larger "condo" spaces could be modified to add another bedroom or two by taking a slice out of a "great room" or using a dining room as an office.
That's common in NYC, take a bite out of the common areas with an extra divider.
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Subdivisions zone strictly for large single-family homes to avoid having poor people live there--but in a lot of places those are being turned into ersatz multi-household housing.
A lot of Long Island communities try to restrict single family homes being turned into apartments (mainly aimed at poor immigrants overcrowding an apartment) by trying to enforce occupancy rules as well as banning overnight street parking.
I'd advocate walkability and "free"/cheap parking scarcity simultaneously before 1) or 2). Depending on the area, I might not advocate increases in density, as it might not be appropriate for the neighborhood at the time; Mission Viejo, for example, is a massive designed suburb, but it's distance from the CBD and other factors give it low priority for directing concerted densification efforts.
Making parking scarce does not accomplish what most planners want. Mostly, it just encourages customers to just stay away. There's almost always someplace else one can go to get the particular item, even if it's a restaurant meal.
I just want to say, as usual, a lot of misinformation about suburbs here. It is untrue that burbs are zoned only for large, single family houses. Every suburb I have ever seen has apartments, small houses and larger houses. Every one.
As for "how many square feet does every person in your home have?", I'm starting a poll.
I just want to say, as usual, a lot of misinformation about suburbs here. It is untrue that burbs are zoned only for large, single family houses. Every suburb I have ever seen has apartments, small houses and larger houses. Every one.
Some burbs are zoned for large houses. Many are not. I've lived in a suburb that had close to 0 apartments (though I assume a few houses were rentals, a few section were large house some sections were small houses (around 1300 sq ft ).
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As for "how many square feet does every person in your home have?", I'm starting a poll.
Some burbs are zoned for large houses. Many are not. I've lived in a suburb that had close to 0 apartments (though I assume a few houses were rentals, a few section were large house some sections were small houses (around 1300 sq ft ).
I'd be curious to see the result.
I have lived in places where some areas were zoned for larger houses, on larger lots. I have lived in places where larger houses were built in an area. I have never lived anywhere that an entire community, say a township in Pennsylvania or a city or town here in Colorado, was zoned for such.
I have lived in places where some areas were zoned for larger houses, on larger lots. I have lived in places where larger houses were built in an area. I have never lived anywhere that an entire community, say a township in Pennsylvania or a city or town here in Colorado, was zoned for such.
I haven't either, but I'm pretty sure some wealthy Long Island suburbs are, especially beach suburbs. Usually they're fairly small.
Nassau County NY is mostly small lot sizes (4000 - 8000 sf, maybe a number at 1/4 acre) but some communities are almost entirely multi acre.
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