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Or what if neither A nor B is the metro area's principal city, but substantial portions of both A's and B's populations commute to the metro area's core?
You're introducing another dimension here--workplaces, which a lot of people think about especially with regard to suburban.
To answer your question, I need to make another assumption which is that neither A nor B is a substantial job center in its own right. If one or both them were, some might argue that they were secondary central cities within metropolitan area.
You could then call them suburbs of the central city, though I still have trouble calling A a suburb, because of its density. I suppose it could be a higher density suburb. It depends if you want to characterize based on the urban form or the commute pattern.
This thread has taken on a whole new face from what I originally started...
I'm sorry to have participated in this thread's hijack. You need to know there are people on this board who think suburbs are the 10th circle of hell (at least).
To some extent, the suburbs have grown the way they have due to the vagaries of the laws and customs of the state they're in. Denver has big suburbs. I was just rereading the OP, and it stated that Aurora, IL is 197,000 people, to Chicago's 2.7 million. Aurora, CO is the namesake of Aurora, IL; it has a population of 325,000, to Denver's 604K. And Aurora, CO has a common border with Denver, it's not some miles away like its counterpart in IL. Pittsburgh has smallish suburbs. It's largest burb is Penn Hills with 42K. There is a thread over there with a list of the suburbs of >10,000 people. Of course, Aurora CO is bigger than Pittsburgh.
Aurora, CO is/has been the home of several military installations and the army medical center, Fitzsimmons. John Kerry was born there. It is currently the home of the University of Colorado health science center. It has its own community college, community theater and many other amenities. As some have pointed out, "suburbs" are sometimes county seats of government. This is especially true when the cities are in stand-alone counties, or considered "independent cities".
Just a few thoughts.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 01-17-2013 at 09:35 PM..
I'm sorry to have participated in this thread's hijack. You need to know there are people on this board who think suburbs are the 10th circle of hell (at least).
To some extent, the suburbs have grown the way they have due to the vagaries of the laws and customs of the state they're in. Denver has big suburbs. I was just rereading the OP, and it stated that Aurora, IL is 197,000 people, to Chicago's 2.7 million. Aurora, CO is the namesake of Aurora, IL; it has a population of 325,000, to Denver's 604K. And Aurora, CO has a common border with Denver, it's not some miles away like its counterpart in IL. Pittsburgh has smallish suburbs. It's largest burb is Penn Hills with 42K. There is a thread over there with a list of the suburbs of >10,000 people. Of course, Aurora CO is bigger than Pittsburgh.
Aurora, CO is/has been the home of several military installations and the army medical center, Fitzsimmons. John Kerry was born there. It is currently the home of the University of Colorado health science center. It has its own community college, community theater and many other amenities. As some have pointed out, "suburbs" are sometimes county seats of government. This is especially true when the cities are in stand-alone counties, or considered "independent cities".
Just a few thoughts.
I have noticed some people on this forum meet suburbs with strong dislike...I can't understand why that is. Should we all live in urban housing in large cities?
As far as Aurora Colorado goes, it's a pretty large city, bordering Denver, a city nearly twice its size. Yet, does this make Aurora a suburb? Or just a large city with an even larger neighbor? I mean, do people call St. Paul a suburb of Minneapolis? Is Dallas a suburb of Fort Worth? Is Broken Arrow a suburb of Tulsa? Is Baltimore a suburb of Washington D.C.? When is it its own city and when is it just a large suburb?
I have noticed some people on this forum meet suburbs with strong dislike...I can't understand why that is. Should we all live in urban housing in large cities?
No. Can't say for other posters, I'm not particularly interested in suburbs or rather suburban development. Definitely not all, but I feel there's a large disportionate amount of suburban development (spread out, often pedestrian unfriendly) relative to urban ones. Also rather negative since many smaller older cities (at least in my region of the country) have decayed.
Quote:
As far as Aurora Colorado goes, it's a pretty large city, bordering Denver, a city nearly twice its size. Yet, does this make Aurora a suburb? Or just a large city with an even larger neighbor? I mean, do people call St. Paul a suburb of Minneapolis? Is Dallas a suburb of Fort Worth? Is Broken Arrow a suburb of Tulsa? Is Baltimore a suburb of Washington D.C.? When is it its own city and when is it just a large suburb?
You seem to think it's an either/or proposition. Sometimes cities are near each other. All the ones you listed besides Aurora and Broken Arrow (which I never heard of) have their history and their own downtown. Aurora, from what I call, grew mainly from Denver growing past its city limits. Places like St. Paul and Baltimore are and were separate cities that were always sizeable cities relative to their neighbors.
You're introducing another dimension here--workplaces, which a lot of people think about especially with regard to suburban.
To answer your question, I need to make another assumption which is that neither A nor B is a substantial job center in its own right. If one or both them were, some might argue that they were secondary central cities within metropolitan area.
I'd say that whether an economic center outside the principal city is a second principal city or a type of suburb depends at least in large part on commuting patterns. If city/town A is an economic center outside the historical principal city and has a substantial percentage of residents who commute to the metro area's core, then it is most likely more suburb than second principal city.
There may be several factors to consider. For example, if city/town A draws its commuters, shoppers, etc., largely from a fairly nearby population in a single section of the metro area, this also is evidence that this place is a local suburban economic node rather than a primary city.
One might also consider the type and variety of economic functions. If city/town A has an economy centered largely around retail shopping, with perhaps some office parks located there as well, this again indicates more of a local economic center within one section of the suburbs when compared with the eclectic economic base of a major metropolitan area's principal city.
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Originally Posted by Carlite
You could then call them suburbs of the central city, though I still have trouble calling A a suburb, because of its density. I suppose it could be a higher density suburb. It depends if you want to characterize based on the urban form or the commute pattern.
This is a good example of differences in perception, and how this can stoke the debate over what constitutes a suburb. Unlike what you say here, I have no trouble considering a place a suburb if one of its significant functions is to be a bedroom community, no matter how densely populated it might be. Neither of us is necessarily right or wrong, but this is an example of the fact that there seem to be varied perceptions about what is meant by the term "suburb."
No. Can't say for other posters, I'm not particularly interested in suburbs or rather suburban development. Definitely not all, but I feel there's a large disportionate amount of suburban development (spread out, often pedestrian unfriendly) relative to urban ones. Also rather negative since many smaller older cities (at least in my region of the country) have decayed.
You seem to think it's an either/or proposition. Sometimes cities are near each other. All the ones you listed besides Aurora and Broken Arrow (which I never heard of) have their history and their own downtown. Aurora, from what I call, grew mainly from Denver growing past its city limits. Places like St. Paul and Baltimore are and were separate cities that were always sizeable cities relative to their neighbors.
The heck Aurora doesn't have its own history. Your "call" is wrong.
Aurora does have its own history, like it or not. It was a military town for a long time; still has several military installations.
Did have much of a history beyond a small town until Denver suburbs grew up in population? Or did was it a sizeable city of its own right before Denver became large?
From what I could tell the first is true for Aurora. For place like Baltimore/DC and St. Paul/Minneapolis, the second is true; they have an independent history.
Did have much of a history beyond a small town until Denver suburbs grew up in population? Or did was it a sizeable city of its own right before Denver became large?
From what I could tell the first is true for Aurora. For place like Baltimore/DC and St. Paul/Minneapolis, the second is true; they have an independent history.
I did post two links about Aurora history. It has a freaking independent history as a military town! Why all the qualifiers? Please tell me the history of Minneapolis/St. Paul and how they are so independent of each other (not that I mentioned them in comparison). One is on one side of the Mississippi River, one is on the other. Minneapolis is bigger, and many people refer to the whole area as "Minneapolis".
And time does march on. Aurora might have been much smaller at one time, but it's now 1/2 the size of Denver, bigger than Pittsburgh!
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