Greater Philadelphia transit vs. Chicagoland transit: (Rail Only) (transportation, ridership, build)

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

When you really think about it, there are few places that the average resident of Center City or tourist would need or want to take the train to.

You could take the subway from CC to UPenn. But it's close enough to walk. And a lot of people do.

You can't take the train to the Art Museum.

Can't take the subway to the airport.

Can't take it to Mount Airy, Manayunk, Chestnut Hill or Roxborough.

Can't take it to the Navy Yard.

That's quite a few key misses. That's why I rarely ever find myself on Septa. In Boston, on the other hand, the T is actually practical for getting to and from places you'd want and need to go to: Logan, the Convention Center, Financial District, Back Bay, Fenway, MGH, Cambridge, etc.



If you could swerve the BSL over to the left and route it through Fairmount and the Northwest, I think ridership would likely improve, even if the density of those areas is lower. You'd also see much more rapid gentrification in Germantown. And if you could extend it to the airport, I think ridership would also get a good bump.

.

My thought on a BSL spur that would run all the way to KOP

MapQuest Maps - Driving Directions - Map


Its also a shame the NHSL and MFL are different gauge extending this line with some spurs to Conshy/PM/KOP/Great Valley etc would have worked well

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

My thought on a BSL spur that would run all the way to KOP

MapQuest Maps - Driving Directions - Map

That makes sense. But wouldn't it be better to just serve KOP with commuter rail? One thing I hate about DC's system is how long the lines are. The ride from Glenmont to Union Station feels like it takes forever. And the ride to/from Shady Grove is waaaaay too long and has waaaaay too many stops. Without express service, those rides just become ridiculous. But yet people are begging for a Metro extension to Germantown, MD. That's nearly a 30 mile ride to Downtown DC.

[munchitup]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

When you really think about it, there are few places that the average resident of Center City or tourist would need or want to take the train to.

You could take the subway from CC to UPenn. But it's close enough to walk. And a lot of people do.

You can't take the train to the Art Museum.

Can't take the subway to the airport.

Can't take it to Mount Airy, Manayunk, Chestnut Hill or Roxborough.

Can't take it to the Navy Yard.

That's quite a few key misses. That's why I rarely ever find myself on Septa. In Boston, on the other hand, the T is actually practical for getting to and from places you'd want and need to go to: Logan, the Convention Center, Financial District, Back Bay, Fenway, MGH, Cambridge, etc.

I was only in Philadelphia for two nights, but that seemed to be my experience in Center City as well. Never got on the train but did a lot of walking around CC. On the same trip (right before I moved to Boston) we were basically tourists in Boston and used the T quite a bit more. One caveat is that I was staying in Center City, while when I stayed in Boston I was staying out on the Green Line, so transit was required in Boston (or a car I guess). But I used it for tourist-y things like going to Harvard Square.

[TheBigGeo08]

Philadelphia's rail system makes Chicago look like third world. Who the hell uses wooden platforms? Not to mention Metra looks like old tanks and Chicago can't be bothered to electrify the system. The MFL has better frequencies than any L line. And what's up with 15 min. freqs on the L?

[kidphilly]

Anyone say tokens

[nei]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

That makes sense. But wouldn't it be better to just serve KOP with commuter rail? One thing I hate about DC's system is how long the lines are. The ride from Glenmont to Union Station feels like it takes forever. And the ride to/from Shady Grove is waaaaay too long and has waaaaay too many stops. Without express service, those rides just become ridiculous. But yet people are begging for a Metro extension to Germantown, MD. That's nearly a 30 mile ride to Downtown DC.

But then you complained earlier that commuter rail doesn't have the frequency. Pluses and minuses both ways. The Manayunk line appears to have stops not much more spread than an express subway anyway. Excluding the Temple University stop, the Manayunk line gets half the ridership of the Central Square T stop.

[TheBigGeo08]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

Anyone say tokens

Anyone say cheaper fare and better service

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

That makes sense. But wouldn't it be better to just serve KOP with commuter rail? One thing I hate about DC's system is how long the lines are. The ride from Glenmont to Union Station feels like it takes forever. And the ride to/from Shady Grove is waaaaay too long and has waaaaay too many stops. Without express service, those rides just become ridiculous. But yet people are begging for a Metro extension to Germantown, MD. That's nearly a 30 mile ride to Downtown DC.

Well I think HR would not be bad, better headways and connecting places along the corrider could be more a park and rode RR out further. But imaging another trunk line into Germantown and Chestnut Hill. Maybe even terminate in PM in the job centers there. You could also leverage the RR line currently to fit for HR

A One seat ride from KOP to the NavyYard or the Linc would be nice too

[nei]

There's little point in building an all-new rapid rail line when there are lots of electric commuter rails. The simpler solution would be to improve frequencies, maybe add a few stations and a few extensions of the already existing commuter rail. Septa rail is designed to be similar to a European S-Bahn / RER but it's too infrequent for that purpose. But the ridership isn't there, partly because the frequencies aren't there.

Maybe shorter more frequent trains are a possibility?

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by munchitup

I was only in Philadelphia for two nights, but that seemed to be my experience in Center City as well. Never got on the train but did a lot of walking around CC. On the same trip (right before I moved to Boston) we were basically tourists in Boston and used the T quite a bit more. One caveat is that I was staying in Center City, while when I stayed in Boston I was staying out on the Green Line, so transit was required in Boston (or a car I guess). But I used it for tourist-y things like going to Harvard Square.

Yeah, the things you're likely to do in Philadelphia are generally (a) nearby or (b) not well-served by transit. Even if you wanted to see UPenn, which is not nearly the tourist magnet Harvard is, you could easily walk across the river. You could also walk to the Italian Market from Independence Hall without really noticing it. And since the Museum is a bit of a hike, you're likely to be driving or catching a cab to it.

Going from Harvard to the North End by foot, on the other hand, is not gonna happen. Not for me anyway. I think the walk from Harvard to Central Square may be a little too intense for a lot of tourists little less a walk all the way across the Charles.

Then again, I walked all the way across Paris and then walked all the way back without thinking twice about it. And I'm someone who often complains about long walks.