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I didn't accuse or insult you. I may have taken up a mocking tone. As always, nothing was meant personally. I don't think I really did anything egregious though; I apologized and am seeking to move on. Note I didn't ask for apology from you for you "You don't know squat about Denver" and plenty of other digs. It's an argument. We're passionate from different sides. No grovelling after the fact required, really.
There are so many aspects of charter schools that aren't shown by standardized testing. Parental involvement, school community support, safety, personal attention ... and because they draw from all areas and income levels, and parental education attainment levels, it is not entirely accurate to base the entire assessment of charter schools on standardized testing. Just as few people would base their opinion of a regular school on standardized testing alone
Gerrymandering school districts, of which you expressed your ardent disapproval. You admitted you don't know how to fix schools, but you say schools should fix themselves without Charters or gerrymandering.
What's your personal experience with inner-city charter schools?
I did not compare you to a Republican whatever. I did not twist your words and then say "Ugh". While I agree with you about standardized testing, and actually said that in my post which statement you then disagreed with, I'm not just talking about that IRT charters being better (or not). As far as parental involvement, well, yeah, a lot of charter schools require it. Did you know that? My friend took her kids out of a charter school b/c of all the "optional" fund raising going on, and all the parental involvement required at a time in her life when she was trying to help her aging, sick parents as well as parent her own kids.
My niece attends a city charter school in Denver. I don't know if you'd call it "inner-city", but it's certainly inside the city. I don't know why anyone would support gerrymandering school attendance areas in the manner which Octa described, ie, "what do you think about NIMBY'ers who want school districts zoned so that they only include homes with high property values and oppose busing in students from low income neighborhoods?" Nor do I favor gerrymandering school districts, but that is not an issue here in Colorado. You seem to imply that gerrymandering is a good thing.
I don't know why anyone would support gerrymandering school attendance areas in the manner which Octa described, ie, "what do you think about NIMBY'ers who want school districts zoned so that they only include homes with high property values and oppose busing in students from low income neighborhoods?"
I know why people would support gerrymandering, doesn't really need to be said why. Extreme example...
See my post earlier about the bad school with disruptive kids from the projects "rioting". Would want your kids to go to school with kids like it? Simple solution to assuage the fears of middle class parents is to draw the boundaries to keep them out.
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Nor do I favor gerrymandering school districts, but that is not an issue here in Colorado. You seem to imply that gerrymandering is a good thing.
Maybe not gerrymandered but the lines can be stark on Lawn Guyland:
''If that sign were moved to the corner,'' Mrs. Tomlin said of the green-and-white Garden City marker, ''my house would increase, what, $150,000, $200,000? My children would then be able to attend a school that I think will prepare them educationally, so that's another $10,000 saved because I send my kids to private school.''
Nearly 70% more for the privelege of living in a different school district. One district is almost all white, the other is almost all non-white.
I was trying to get you to be empathetic. I felt your depiction of the charter parent of savvy and system-gaming was inappropriate. There's an elementary school not far from here with abysmal numbers whose teachers cheated on standardized tests. It's in a horrible area. If you zoned for this school and could not move, could not afford private, wouldn't you take every opportunity to get your kid into a better school?
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Originally Posted by Katiana
As far as parental involvement, well, yeah, a lot of charter schools require it. Did you know that?
I did. It's a huge commitment, and it's not for everyone. A charter is very much a hands on education for parents and guardians. But for the person described above, it might be the best option.
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Originally Posted by Katiana
My friend took her kids out of a charter school b/c of all the "optional" fund raising going on, and all the parental involvement required at a time in her life when she was trying to help her aging, sick parents as well as parent her own kids.
The ones I'm familiar with are pretty understanding with people's circumstances. I haven't heard of a similar story.
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Originally Posted by Katiana
"what do you think about NIMBY'ers who want school districts zoned so that they only include homes with high property values and oppose busing in students from low income neighborhoods?"
There are lots of school districts like this, though.
Why not what? Why can't you give rich suburban districts authority over poor urban ones? Because you'll get riots in BOTH places.
I'll be interested to see how it plays out in Memphis, which is merging the city and county schools. As you say ... plenty in both city and county were not happy.
I was trying to get you to be empathetic. I felt your depiction of the charter parent of savvy and system-gaming was inappropriate. There's an elementary school not far from here with abysmal numbers whose teachers cheated on standardized tests. It's in a horrible area. If you zoned for this school and could not move, could not afford private, wouldn't you take every opportunity to get your kid into a better school?
I probably would. However, those are not the parents gaming the system. It was actually my daughter who first noted this. She goes to school at the University of Colorado Health Science Center in Denver. A lot of her professors live in Denver and have managed to get their kids into desirable charters in Denver, despite the lottery system. These people could move to a neighborhood with good public schools even in the city if they so chose.
I did. It's a huge commitment, and it's not for everyone. A charter is very much a hands on education for parents and guardians. But for the person described above, it might be the best option.
A lot of people have more to do with their lives than volunteer at their kids' schools. It's not a good solution for parents who work regular daytime hours.
The ones I'm familiar with are pretty understanding with people's circumstances. I haven't heard of a similar story.
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That's not to say it hasn't happened other places.
There are lots of school districts like this, though.
Pennsylvania tends to be more a "rich district/poor district" type of place, as does New York.
I'll be interested to see how it plays out in Memphis, which is merging the city and county schools. As you say ... plenty in both city and county were not happy.
If the district boundaries don't change, perhaps there won't be too much many issues.
So because the coworkers wished to save money on housing, and perhaps chose to move to a transitional neighborhood and work to improve it, they should be forbidden from sending their kid to charter school? I think it's pretty wise actually. They aren't taking away any resources from the neighborhood school, either, while possibly contributing to the improvement of the neighborhood through other efforts. I'd rather save the excess mortgage money for college tuition.
As for the charter events, most of the ones I've done are after hours, including meetings. Because some may find these tasks onerous are not cause for the abandonment of charters, IMO. Just means they aren't a good fit for some.
Well, yeah, the way it was said was insulting. Now my father was a wonderful, "Main Street" Republican. He would turn over in his grave at the Republican Party of today.
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