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While I definitely agree that there is a rising trend of people moving towards urban areas for their own reasons, I can't help but find this to be pretty spot on. I really don't believe the whole "urban migration" has so much to do with even giving up cars completely, but rather moving closer to where the jobs are. And a huge portion of those living closer to the city likely still own cars and probably want to own them. Of course I'm going by my own anecdotal evidence and the wide range of people I've talked to.
When I talk to people who aren't from the area, those who want to move to NYC or be closer to it have their own reasons but the most common that I hear are: a) jobs b) being near "everything" c) fun and culture of the city. Most people don't want to do without having a car, and will likely go without it because it's just an expense that they cannot handle at these earlier phases of their careers. Of course there are those people who would just rather not drive at all and actually enjoy living in some kind of "walking and transit paradise" like they see NYC and it'll always be a haven for them. But I refuse to believe that this is as big of a trend as people are making it out to be, and we'll see things shifting back over the next couple of years as us "millenials" continue to enter and move up within the workforce. Even those who do stay "in the city" and raise a family...I'd bet for every one young urban couple who can afford an Upper West Side 2BR and do without a car, you'll have several more young urban couples living in further out city 'hoods, where they may not *need* the car as much as some exurbanite in Orange County, but they're definitely gonna go out and buy a nice car for themselves/the family.
You've been outside of the NYC area, besides what maybe Boston,D.C. or Chicago can you go carless... and not to the extent you can in NYC either. Last I checked for the overwhelmingly majority of the country you need a car to get around, wether that be due to sprawl or crappy transit.
May I ask if you don't like being in the NYC area why don't you move? It isn't like you would be moving to a place with a higher cost of living if you went down south or to the Midwest. I think you would love living where I'm at, unwalkable, lots of parking, 75 mph speed limit highways and plenty of them, as well as a near dead city.
To be more on topic, I'd love to have a car to take to a race track or something, to really use the speed, but as is I hate driving with traffic... it's no fun to hit red light after red light or ride bumper to bumper when the lights are green. Hopefully one day I become wealthy so I can have a personal chaffeur, I prefer being driven around... it could be a friend driving me, a taxi, bus, subway, or flight... Personally I prefer being on my iPod while getting to my destination or chatting, driving was fun when I got my license but it's worn off for sometime now.
I have I guess what you'd call an uncle-in-law in Chicago, he has like 20 cars. He has what looked like a NASCAR type corvette in his garage, various BMW's, Mercedes, a couple jaguars, a porche etc, he loves cars. He let my parents and I test drive when we were there, but really where are you going to use those cars to their full potential? If you got a sportscar you want to push it to like 160mph or something... surely you're not going to do that commuting to work or driving your family around.
Off topic: Oh boy, I can't wait until the anti-car people get here.
On topic: I live in a small town. I couldn't see myself ever moving to NYC but I am considering a move to Nashville. I don't want to have to give up my motorcycle or truck.
May I ask if you don't like being in the NYC area why don't you move? It isn't like you would be moving to a place with a higher cost of living if you went down south or to the Midwest. I think you would love living where I'm at, unwalkable, lots of parking, 75 mph speed limit highways and plenty of them, as well as a near dead city.
I live in NYC because I'm a recent college grad with student loans, and NYC has a pretty good amount of higher-paying work within my field. My parents don't have any issue with me living at home, because I'm paying back my loans above the minimum and putting as much money as I can in the bank. I understand not everyone has this opportunity, but I'm taking advantage of what I have and grateful for it every day. Living at home has it's cons of course: I'd love to have my own place, but if I can take that $1500 a month I'd be spending in rent + utilities and put it towards student loan payments + savings account + helping out my parents with some expenses/bills if they need it, I'm more than willing to postpone that. I'd rather be able to move out and buy a small home, condo or townhouse around here than rent in someone's basement.
As far as living in NYC is concerned, I live in an outer borough like 81% of NYC residents, where we are a lot more likely to own cars, due to it not being as "built up" as we'd call it around here, or transit-centered, walkable and generally urban. Most of the outer boroughs do have a very urban feel, probably due to their higher density than most typical suburbs, but there is a lot of car use. Where I live, in Staten Island, is actually one of the more car-friendly parts of the city, and despite our traffic issues I like it to be that way. I live on the southern part of the island, which is more suburban than mostly everywhere else in the city, as this satellite imagery shows. The local highway actually hardly ever gets backed up, even during rush hours and when you're driving on it you can possibly even forget that you're in NYC at all! We've even got the big shopping plazas and arterials, yay suburbia in the city, lol. All that being said, plus having about 90% of my extended family living here along with my friends, I actually don't mind it that much.
All of that being said, I'm still strongly considering a move down to the Raleigh-Cary-Durham-Chapel Hill area of North Carolina one day down the line. I'd even accept a lesser salary than I'd make up here, in exchange for the lower cost of living and arguably better quality of life. There'd be sacrifices to make, those which I don't think I'm ready for yet related to leaving my hometown behind...but I think it's pretty much inevitable. Ideally, I'd like to continue working and growing my career in NYC where I can make top dollar pay compared to other cities, but more importantly gain several years of experience and learn as many new technologies as I can (I'm in IT) before I'd decide to move down. I'd like to have the experience and salary as leverage when looking for work down there, I'd even accept making an even or slightly less salary to move down there, as it'd be offset by the cost of living. Great ideas to plan for the future, but in the meantime focusing on the present.
Wow....way to go me for going waaaay off topic, or maybe not so much? Because throughout all of that I still want to own a car and continue to purchase new ones as needed. As I mentioned earlier, through my own anecdotal evidence...people wanting to move more "urban" don't necessarily want to ditch having a car. Lower expenses? Reduce driving amount? Sure, maybe. But the whole idea of huge masses of millenials going "car free" for good? Sounds like bogus to me.
William Kunstler has said "Many people have bought their last automobile, they just don't know it yet."
Prophetic words?
Ehh, not really?
Maybe it's just that I find Kunstler to be a hyperbolic blowhard 99% of the time.
I get his point that we've made some pretty uninspiring, drab and just plain ugly urban/suburban places over the years...I'm always a fan of interesting architecture...regardless of whether or not it has a parking lot in front. His whole shtick that we're all(keyword being all, lol) going to go back to living in his enlightened idea of "interesting places", i.e. the same old 3-5 story "mixed use" urban landscape that we used to build and we still do build just doesn't really jive with me. Urban development like that is certainly growing, and I think we'll have a growing urban sector going forward just as we'll have a growing suburban sector: different environments for different people. Big homes, small homes, medium homes, townhomes, condos, walk-ups, apartment towers, rowhomes: theres a style of home for everybody and this growing choice is a great thing. People like him who tell us we should all live how he feels is the best way is not a great thing at all.
Last edited by KeepRightPassLeft; 05-02-2013 at 01:17 AM..
To be more on topic, I'd love to have a car to take to a race track or something, to really use the speed, but as is I hate driving with traffic... it's no fun to hit red light after red light or ride bumper to bumper when the lights are green. Hopefully one day I become wealthy so I can have a personal chaffeur, I prefer being driven around... it could be a friend driving me, a taxi, bus, subway, or flight... Personally I prefer being on my iPod while getting to my destination or chatting, driving was fun when I got my license but it's worn off for sometime now.
This is pretty much my feeling. I do quite enjoy the personal freedom of a car, but it doesn't really feel like "freedom" if I'm limited to going 25 mph on the freeway. And then, since most activities are done in the city, it's quite annoying to find parking and then spending the extra cost to pay for it.
Eventually, it feels less like freedom and more like a responsibility; ie, adding insurance costs, fuel costs, maintenance costs, etc. My whole life starts to become centered around a car which isn't even the car I want (sometimes I dream about buying a new car and then reach reality when I think about the car payments I'd have to make). It's very appealing to me to want to move to a city where I could spend that same money on rent or whatever and just use mass transit.
It's also nice to walk and actually use some of the restless energy to get somewhere instead of driving.
The most common complaint about Baltimore that I hear in my peer group: I freaking hate driving, I wish we had usable transit!
Vehicle ownership rates declined in the second half of the aughts; we shall see what direction they take when the economy gets moving again. VMT is down too.
I also don't think it's a "crisis," manufactured or not, and I take exception to that. Famine, natural disasters, et al., are crises. People choosing a different method of transport than the most popular one is not a crisis.
In urban areas, I think "the family car" - as in one - is back in style, shared between a couple. My prediction is that per capita auto ownership rates will tick down slowly but there is no "crisis."
In urban areas, I think "the family car" - as in one - is back in style, shared between a couple. My prediction is that per capita auto ownership rates will tick down slowly but there is no "crisis."
This.
Here in Pittsburgh, the transit system is relatively bad, except if you need to get to Downtown or Oakland (where the universities are). If you live in the city, and you commute to either area, it's actually better if you take a bus (or in a few cases, light rail), because the parking costs are much higher than the cost of bus fare. But you still probably need a car for most inter-neighborhood travel - for things like shopping and socializing.
I used to own a car, but I only used it a few times a week. When I got married, my use dropped to near zero because we used my wife's car (which was in better shape) for these sort of trips. So I ultimately gave it away to a cousin who really needed one.
Like once a month, we run into an issue where two cars would have been good. For example, if my wife is working late, I'm basically stuck in the neighborhood with my daughter, and we can't go anywhere that isn't nearby. But it seems like overkill to have more car than you need for 1% issues. Kinda like people who get trucks to haul building supplies from Home Depot, but only actually do so a few times per year.
Maybe it's just that I find Kunstler to be a hyperbolic blowhard 99% of the time.
If kunstler didn't exist, the anti-urbanists would have had to invent him.
Generally their perfect straw man.
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His whole shtick that we're all(keyword being all, lol) going to go back to living in his enlightened idea of "interesting places", i.e. the same old 3-5 story "mixed use" urban landscape that we 