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I meant like trains outside of NYC and D.C. that don't have it. Some of the trains I've ridden that didn't seem to be that bad were mainly above ground light rail lines, though I probably just didn't notice it since it's not as pronounced being above ground.
Meh, the whole noise thing is irrelevant to me, since I prefer cars anyway. My car is pretty quiet, though I'd love an old noisy V8 car to restore one day and cruise around on the weekends. As far as public transit goes, the only real transit I'd have to ride into Manhattan is the express bus, which had big comfortable coach seats that I can sleep in, on relatively quiet MCI and Prevost coach buses. I'd rather be on one of those every day versus being on any kind of rail, outside of high-seat backed comfortable commuter rail which isn't an option in my area. I did the light rail/streetcar commute for a while, and I found it was horrible. Usually had to stand, and the crappy seats hurt my back. The best part of that commute was getting in my car back at the park and ride and having the nice padded lumbar supported seat to relax in the rest of the way home, even with traffic.
You seem to be confusing light rail with heavy rail. NY doesn't have light rail. Nor streetcars. It only has heavy rail - subways and commuter trains. And only the latter (commuter rail) has park and ride.
I'm not sure you're familiar with it. With tens of thousands of roads, it's much bigger than 150 stations.
Sure if you enjoy inching along in severe freeway gridlock every morning as you twiddle your thumbs. But I prefer to commute by train when I can, because I value my time. And my sanity.
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Originally Posted by jetgraphics
Over time, it is the bus and paved road that is hideously expensive.
I suggest reading what the civil engineers report about the cost estimate for repairing America's decaying infrastructure. It is a stupendous figure.
And rail is the most efficient means of land transportation with the greatest carrying capacity, fuel economy and lowest costs. Rail vehicles can travel in multi-car trains carrying up to 20,000 passengers per hour in much narrower rights-of-way, not much more than two car lanes wide for a double track system. To carry 20,000 automobile commuters per hour per direction, a freeway would have to be at least 18 lanes wide.
Over time, it is the bus and paved road that is hideously expensive.
I suggest reading what the civil engineers report about the cost estimate for repairing America's decaying infrastructure. It is a stupendous figure.
Yes, the FHA is calling for $170 billion per year in investment. That's enough to build 85 miles of subway each year... not much when you consider the highway system has 47,000+ miles. In just 550 years at this stupendous level of expenditure, we could have a subway system. Then we'd just need to figure out the "last mile" problems for those 47,000 miles.
Sure if you enjoy inching along in freeway gridlock every morning as you twiddle your thumbs. I prefer to commute by train when I can, because I value my time. And my sanity.
Not so much. But inching along in the freeways is still much, much faster than public transit. I prefer to inch along than commute by train since it's faster, more comfortable, more flexible. To each his own, however.
Disagree. Heavy rail and light rail in my experience are MUCH faster than autos. In Atlanta, Phoenix or during my most recent trip, the London Underground is unparalleled in speed and frequency of travel. I'd love to ditch my car.
You seem to be confusing light rail with heavy rail.
I'm not confusing light rail with heavy rail, I know the difference between both. I actually used to do quite a bit of railfanning back when I was a teenager in my explorations of the NYC metro area. I was not comparing the two either, but rather making a general statement about my feelings of traveling on rail vs. bus transportation, saying that I don't like traveling on light rail OR streetcars (kind of grouped them together, because they're similar in a way IMO) but don't mind commuter rail as it's more comfortable to me. And I said I also don't mind riding express coach buses that NYC has also...MUCH more so than taking subways and local buses. More of a general statement about transportation types and their level of comfort to me, in response to your pro-rail, anti-bus comments above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid
NY doesn't have light rail. Nor streetcars. It only has heavy rail - subways and commuter trains.
Well, yes and no. There are currently no light rail systems in the City of New York, however the metro area does have them in the form of the Hudson Bergen Light Rail system, which runs through downtown Jersey City about a mile across the Hudson River from the CBD in Manhattan. I'd consider it to be a pretty integral part of NYC's transit infrastructure, as a LOT of people commute into Manhattan from New Jersey and the light rail connects several nearby communities such as Bergen, Jersey City and Bayonne to both Hudson River ferries and the PATH train to Manhattan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid
And only the latter (commuter rail) has park and ride.
Completely incorrect, several light rail systems have park and ride. No traditional streetcar systems that I know of, however I'm also not really familiar with any to be honest.
If those 7 examples weren't enough to prove my point, here's the park and ride I used daily for the HBLR for a couple of months late last year into early this year...
Disagree. Heavy rail and light rail in my experience are MUCH faster than autos. In Atlanta, Phoenix or during my most recent trip, the London Underground is unparalleled in speed and frequency of travel. I'd love to ditch my car.
Rail is often much faster for commuting that's for sure. And you can use your commute time to do work on your laptop, read a book or just relax, which isn't possible driving in a car. Sure beats stressing out in bumper to bumper traffic with a thousand other stressed out drivers who are ready to road rage on each other at any minute. You don't have to worry about parking hassles, and it's a whole lot safer.
You come across scary accident scenes like this on the freeways everyday...which instantly creates a massive traffic jam, and your gridlock just got ten times worse.
Plus drivers are the mercy of fuel costs, insurance, car payments.
I'm planning to move to a city with a top notch rail system...I find the car to be that much of a negative in my life financially and mentally. It really sucks.
Unfortunately,transportation people take often has little to do with utility. It's an expression of your identity (I drive a Mercedes, I drive a Prius, I take the train, I bike to work, etc.) and people are vain. Buses have poor "branding."
But that CAN be fixed. Cities should cease building these expensive streetcars, and just work on revamping and rebranding their buses. Get the buses running more reliably/frequently. Build nice bus stops that will show you the next arrival time. Put Wi-Fi on the buses and make them look "high-end" (e.g. the Circulator buses in DC). Come up with fancy names that make people think they aren't riding the "city bus."
Think I'm crazy? Look at the Bolt Buses. No one would take the icky Greyhound bus to NYC. That's for poor people. But a Bolt Bus, with Wi-Fi, the glossy paint job, and the great website? That's cool. How did they succeed? By hiding the fact that Bolt Bus is owned by Greyhound. It's all about image.
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