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Point taken on urban renewal. In NYC, high density buildings were replaced with other high density buildings. From my link from the history channel. "A typical tenement building had five to seven stories and occupied nearly all of the lot upon which it was built (usually 25 feet wide and 100 feet long, according to existing city regulations). . . . Later, speculators began building new tenements, often using cheap materials and construction shortcuts. Even new, this kind of housing was at best uncomfortable and at worst highly unsafe. . . .The hard facts included in Riis’ book–such as the fact that 12 adults slept in a room some 13 feet across, and that the infant death rate in the tenements was as high as 1 in 10–stunned many in America and around the world and led to a renewed call for reform."
I posted a photo of one of those buildings a week or two ago.
Speaking of Europe, Germany and central Europe has similar scaled housing but without as severe overcrowinding nor as much of the lot used — usually about half the lot was left for a courtyard, which I think was a legal requirement. NYC had a faster rate growth then and enormous number of poor immigrants entering at once, leading to extreme housing conditions.
Neighborhood layouts can vary dramatically for suburbs by region for the reasons you outlined. But actual housing styles really do not differ appreciably.
There's still some variation in regions, though less than in the early 20th century. Texas has more a lot brick then New England, and New England likes to use a colonial-ish style for houses.
Pittsburgh lacks a grid, except on the S. Side flats, which is its own grid.
Pittsburgh has plenty of grids or warped grids. Downtown has two. The Strip District has one. Lawrenceville has one. So do East Liberty, Garfield, Bloomfield, and Highland Park. The lower portions of the North Side are all gridded. Oakland is a warped grid, as is the core of Squirrel Hill. Some areas of the Southern Hilltop, like Allentown, have a pretty regular grid.
The grids of course in no way align with one another. But really it's only the more hilly neighborhoods which have truly random street patterns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
Point taken on urban renewal. In NYC, high density buildings were replaced with other high density buildings. From my link from the history channel. "A typical tenement building had five to seven stories and occupied nearly all of the lot upon which it was built (usually 25 feet wide and 100 feet long, according to existing city regulations). . . . Later, speculators began building new tenements, often using cheap materials and construction shortcuts. Even new, this kind of housing was at best uncomfortable and at worst highly unsafe. . . .The hard facts included in Riis’ book–such as the fact that 12 adults slept in a room some 13 feet across, and that the infant death rate in the tenements was as high as 1 in 10–stunned many in America and around the world and led to a renewed call for reform."
The former tenements are now pretty desirable at much lower population densities, with the exception of a lack of natural light in the middle.
I've never understood why the U.S. didn't do in its urban centers what many European cities did - build apartments in the "hollow block" model where the center of the block is green space. It allows for way more natural light than the typical "dumbbell" model for tenaments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei
Eh, I think there's still some 19th century apartment buildings left:
I've never understood why the U.S. didn't do in its urban centers what many European cities did - build apartments in the "hollow block" model where the center of the block is green space. It allows for way more natural light than the typical "dumbbell" model for tenaments.
Agreed, though I think few US cities had lots of dumbbell shaped tenement blocks besides NYC. Maybe the North End of Boston. The street layout (long and narrow blocks) and lot sizes of NYC lent itself to awkward building layout, unlike the more square shaped layout of Philly.
The later tenements had more of a U-shaped design, which wasn't very good for usable open space. Here's a couple of good articles on them comparing them to "Euro blocks"
Agreed, though I think few US cities had lots of dumbbell shaped tenement blocks besides NYC. Maybe the North End of Boston. The street layout (long and narrow blocks) and lot sizes of NYC lent itself to awkward building layout, unlike the more square shaped layout of Philly.
Cincinnati has some in Over-The-Rhine too, and probably had more before urban renewal. I know I've read at one point Cincinnati had the second-highest population density in the country after NYC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei
Maybe I'm more used to NYC, looks like what I'd apartment building though not the most typical-sized one. Well, looks like an old tenement building.
I figured they would. But you said "I think there's still some 19th century apartment buildings left" as if there was any doubt in that. Maybe I just didn't pick up your sarcasm.
The point remains that outside of some portions of Upper Manhattan, areas didn't go straight from undeveloped to those prewar walkups. Smaller-scale buildings were knocked down.
whoa. Over-the-Rhine has one of the most drastic changes in building condition / looking like a "nice" neighborhood I've seen. Kinda sketchy looking, and a big abandoned building:
I figured they would. But you said "I think there's still some 19th century apartment buildings left" as if there was any doubt in that. Maybe I just didn't pick up your sarcasm. .
No, it was non-sarcastic. Thought you meant the old apartment stock of NYC is all 1900 and later
:
The key difference between this and later urban renewal is that lower-density apartment buildings were generally being replaced by higher-density ones. Indeed, virtually all of the "prewar" apartment stock in NYC was built between 1900 and 1930, and much of it replaced the 19th century built fabric of tenements and rowhouses.
misread it. Though I found a few 19th century NYC tenements that are rentals today get advertised as "pre-war", which is normally meant for nicer old buildings. Another ad described one as "all-new" because the kitchen was new.
Just a bunch of concrete sky scrapers in the city centre does not make a city for me. Great cities have their individual characteristics that develop over time. It's almost like all the cities use the same template.
Most American cities look different from each other.
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I don't really feel all cities look the same at all. Many do, sure, but there's so many more variable locations. I haven't been to that many places but I've been to many that I've seen distinguishable cities.
Miami is very unique. It has a downtown which is very sleek and modern. The housing style is of the Mediterranean style and I personally think it looks awful in most neighbourhoods, but there's some variety. Coral Gables has a distinct look and there's all the villages based on international places like Normany, Italy or China.
Mobile, AL has some very unique buildings downtown. It's not a big city but for its size it has a lot to offer architecturally. It's an old city with a French colonial history and it has buildings to reflect that, but also lots of cool modern skyscrapers. Also, the USS Alabama in the bay is just a nice touch. Always a nice city to pass by.
New Orleans needs no introduction. The French Quarter speaks for itself.
Dallas has a unique skyline. It's not huge or anything but it stands out. I will say Texas suburbia all does kinda look the same for the most part, but at least there's a variety of houses. You got shotgun houses, you got Victorians, you got ranch houses, you got brick houses. You also got a lot of McMansions which I dislike because they look ugly and soulless. I'd rather have a small house with character and charm.
Minneapolis looks distinct with a distinct downtown and residential areas with houses that all look different. Even St. Paul, just on the other side, looks considerably different.
I haven't been to New York, Boston, San Francisco or Seattle but those cities also have unique architecture and look unlike most American cities.
I've never understood why the U.S. didn't do in its urban centers what many European cities did - build apartments in the "hollow block" model where the center of the block is green space. It allows for way more natural light than the typical "dumbbell" model for tenaments.
The overriding concern was to get as much living space as possible on a lot. The dumbbell model allowed just enough air to be legal. The lots are 25 x 100 (and intended originally for single-family homes!), which doesn't allow a lot of space for a courtyard.
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