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Old 06-18-2017, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,377 posts, read 111,423,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
350 square feet is unsafe? Regardless of impact, lessening parking rules may lower housing costs and increase availability
350 sf is pretty little. As these would be apartments, you're packing them in. We now have 58 known dead from the London fire. Keep that in mind.

People are not going to quit owning cars. They'll just look for other places to put them, mostly on the streets, but also in places like free parking garages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Wburg's post referring to downtowns
I doubt it, not in the strictest sense of a downtown, e.g. the central business district, at least not in a city like Denver which has a large downtown business/shopping area. He's talking about residential neighborhoods with houses built in the 50s-70s. There's nothing that new near downtown Denver, especially in the latter range. Cherry Creek, if you'll look at a map of Denver neighborhoods is in the city and not far from d/t.
https://www.denvergov.org/maps/map/neighborhoods
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Old 06-18-2017, 03:36 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
46,079 posts, read 47,347,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
350 sf is pretty little. As these would be apartments, you're packing them in. We now have 58 known dead from the London fire. Keep that in mind.
Obviously it would pack people in. Have better fire codes?

Quote:
People are not going to quit owning cars. They'll just look for other places to put them, mostly on the streets, but also in places like free parking garages.
I didn't say they weren't. But perhaps you could increase housing availability with less parking required as T Damon said, regardless of impact.

Quote:
I doubt it, not in the strictest sense of a downtown, e.g. the central business district, at least not in a city like Denver which has a large downtown business/shopping area.l]
well, wburg's post said downtown; maybe he could clarify
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Old 06-18-2017, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,377 posts, read 111,423,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Obviously it would pack people in. Have better fire codes?



I didn't say they weren't. But perhaps you could increase housing availability with less parking required as T Damon said, regardless of impact.



well, wburg's post said downtown; maybe he could clarify
Yes, better fire codes would be a good idea. Nothing can be fail-safe, though.

Regardless of impact? You want people double parking on the streets? Parking on lawns, in front of fire hydrants? You have to face reality.

Maybe wburg will come back and clarify, yes.
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Old 06-18-2017, 03:50 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
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In front of fire hydrants? People usually don't want to risk a big ticket and tow. Certainly not my experience. There wasn't any evidence that high rises have a higher fire fatality rate than low density housing
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Old 06-18-2017, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,377 posts, read 111,423,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
In front of fire hydrants? People usually don't want to risk a big ticket and tow. Certainly not my experience. There wasn't any evidence that high rises have a higher fire fatality rate than low density housing
It was a rhetorical comment, but if you restrict parking "regardless of impact" you'll see stuff like that. People will not give up their cars. You're not going to put that genie back in the bottle.

As for fires, I'd like to see more data.
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Old 06-18-2017, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
5,105 posts, read 8,431,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
It was a rhetorical comment, but if you restrict parking "regardless of impact" you'll see stuff like that. People will not give up their cars. You're not going to put that genie back in the bottle.

As for fires, I'd like to see more data.
Seems like a lazy--and potentially scary--argument: things won't change, so there's no point in trying.
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Old 06-18-2017, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
Seems like a lazy--and potentially scary--argument: things won't change, so there's no point in trying.
The city of Boulder Colorado has spent at least the last 40 years trying to get people out of their cars. It hasn't worked. Oh, sure, they have bike paths all over the city, better than just "good" public transit, Lyft, Uber, free shuttles and gawd knows what else. They've also made parking difficult. The most recent endeavor: Boulder to begin paid parking, free shuttle at Chautauqua on Saturday - Boulder Daily Camera Chautauqua pilot sees drastic cuts as Boulder seeks to 'start out small' - Boulder Daily Camera Last summer they tried some goof-ball "right-sizing" of a busy city street by taking out one lane of traffic and turning it into a bike lane. They had to take it all down due to community objections. You can read an "obit" about it here. Nothing much works.

"Scary" is uncalled for.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:23 PM
 
1,134 posts, read 1,097,671 times
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Very interesting reading this post about gentrification, which inevitably leads to 'displacement' of 'less than desireables' from the immediate environment before any improvements can be made.

Has anyone given any consideration as to where exactly the 'undesireables' are supposed to go ? Does anybody even care ?

Okay, so that was the rhetorical part of my question, but here's the more important thing to ask: Are those who are planning on moving in (after the 'necessary displacement') adequately prepared for the inevitable outcome, of pushing people out with or without thier consent ?

Armalite windows all-around might be in order, for starters. Just a polite suggestion, unless you are lucky enough to have your own armed escorts/professional driver and/or armed security detail assigned to you.

One never knows what can happen out there, y'know ?
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Old 06-18-2017, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,377 posts, read 111,423,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
The city of Boulder Colorado has spent at least the last 40 years trying to get people out of their cars. It hasn't worked. Oh, sure, they have bike paths all over the city, better than just "good" public transit, Lyft, Uber, free shuttles and gawd knows what else. They've also made parking difficult. The most recent endeavor: Boulder to begin paid parking, free shuttle at Chautauqua on Saturday - Boulder Daily Camera Chautauqua pilot sees drastic cuts as Boulder seeks to 'start out small' - Boulder Daily Camera Last summer they tried some goof-ball "right-sizing" of a busy city street by taking out one lane of traffic and turning it into a bike lane. They had to take it all down due to community objections. You can read an "obit" about it here. Nothing much works.

"Scary" is uncalled for.
Here's the link I forgot to post about the "right-sizing".
Boulder's 'right-sizing' reversal: How the Folsom re-alignment came undone - Boulder Daily Camera
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
5,105 posts, read 8,431,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
The city of Boulder Colorado has spent at least the last 40 years trying to get people out of their cars. It hasn't worked. Oh, sure, they have bike paths all over the city, better than just "good" public transit, Lyft, Uber, free shuttles and gawd knows what else. They've also made parking difficult. The most recent endeavor: Boulder to begin paid parking, free shuttle at Chautauqua on Saturday - Boulder Daily Camera Chautauqua pilot sees drastic cuts as Boulder seeks to 'start out small' - Boulder Daily Camera Last summer they tried some goof-ball "right-sizing" of a busy city street by taking out one lane of traffic and turning it into a bike lane. They had to take it all down due to community objections. You can read an "obit" about it here. Nothing much works.
Yes, there are small pockets that are not car-dependent. But, as long as they remain small pockets in a sea of car-dependency, people will continue to own/use cars for the times when they aren't in those small pockets.


Yes, NYC is currently an outlier. (it wasn't always that way) But, car usage there is less, in part, because it's easy to get around without one, and the overall area where a car isn't a necessity is pretty large.


Quote:
"Scary" is uncalled for.

I was referring to applying that argument to other issues, like climate change/global warming, for example.
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