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Seattle is way behind, and will never catch up, frankly. SF is the only city one can realistically compare. Its problem is congestion on transit during peak use hours.
You haven't lived in Seattle for a long time and are still making declarative statements based on very outdated assumptions. It now has extremely high transit commute ridership, one of the two most ambitious rail expansion plans in the country and an extremely effective and award winning bus system. Did you actually read the article? I said up front west coast cities are at a disadvantage without the transit-land use legacy of older Northeast cities, but to say it will never catch up is ridiculous.
Thanks for that great summary, MktStEl... it is a scary story, indeed... what will people do when the damage from decades of skimping on maintenance in NY & DC becomes impossible to work around?
To be fair to WMATA, the agency did embark on a major reconstruction program starting around 2012 that is bringing much of the system's infrastructure back up to snuff. They're also discussing fixing something that they skimped on when the system was being built - a power supply robust enough to handle eight-car trains, which would boost system capacity - but it may not be as necessary right now because of the ridership losses associated with the reconstruction program.
WMATA in DC is actually doing really well now. Can’t speak for the rest of the east coast. We also have two major expansion projects under construction. The second phase of the silver line and the purple lightrail line that will form a northern connection between four of our northern metro legs.
Which I'm looking forward to riding when both open.
But one of the reasons WMATA Metrorail sank to the level it did was because for most of its existence, the agency saw itself as in the business of construction as much as, or maybe even more than, it was in the business of moving people around the National Capital Region quickly and safely.
I don't know whether or not the agency's dysfunctional operating culture has been fixed yet. I hope it's on the way there much like the reconstruction program has progressed. I also know that its pass-the-hat funding formula needs to be but hasn't been.
Edited to add: I should note, however, that the Purple Line is not a WMATA project but an undertaking of Maryland DOT's Maryland Transit Administration.
Last edited by MarketStEl; 01-07-2019 at 01:33 AM..
I haven't lived up there, but from what I know, the Seattle transit story seems to be one of missed or squandered opportunities:
--Most significant was the Seattle Forward initiative, which would've started a heavy rail system.
Voters turned it down, and the pot of federal $$ went to Atlanta instead.
--More recently, voters reject another rail initiative (I don't recall the details offhand,
but any Seattle transit fans reading this probably will). A later one was approved,
but of course it'll take many years for all the new lines to be built.
--The monorail proposal wasn't as comprehensive, but would've been useful.
But it had to go back to the ballot too many times, and finally was defeated.
--Most recently, Seattle will soon be losing something it already had in hand,
when the bus tunnel will cease hosting buses; they'll be tied up in surface-street traffic again.
As the light rail system expands, presumably trains will run more often, but probably there
still would've been room for buses in the tunnel.
Bad show all 'round.
You are incorrect on many counts here - Seattle Voters approved Sound Move in 1996, ST2 in 2008 and the $54 Billion ST3 in 2016. Trains currently run every 6 minutes during peak and will be running every 3 minutes through 2 downtown subways in coming years when the system grows to a largely grade-separated 116 mile network.
The buses have no choice but to get out of the tunnel. It has to be a 100% rail tunnel.now. Thankfully, Seattle has the busiest bus-only corridor in the country on 3rd Ave that they can use.
You are incorrect on many counts here - Seattle Voters approved Sound Move in 1996, ST2 in 2008 and the $54 Billion ST3 in 2016. Trains currently run every 6 minutes during peak and will be running every 3 minutes through 2 downtown subways in coming years when the system grows to a largely grade-separated 116 mile network.
The buses have no choice but to get out of the tunnel. It has to be a 100% rail tunnel.now. Thankfully, Seattle has the busiest bus-only corridor in the country on 3rd Ave that they can use.
There was another transit initiative, later than Seattle Forward, but probably before those ST measures you mention, which went down to defeat... when I have a moment, I'll try to look it up. I wasn't implying that every transit measure that's been on the ballot has been rejected, but I imagine people regret the defeat of those early ones.
You may be correct about light-rail headways in the bus tunnel, but I have never read that before. The only explanation I'd seen for the buses being put out of the bus tunnel was that the expansion of the Convention Center would block what had been the buses' north portal to the tunnel.
That second rail tunnel is still years away, isn't it? Or will the rail headways rise to 3 minutes even before then?
Surface-street bus lanes still aren't as good as a bus tunnel -- you agree with that, don't you?
There was another transit initiative, later than Seattle Forward, but probably before those ST measures you mention, which went down to defeat... when I have a moment, I'll try to look it up. I wasn't implying that every transit measure that's been on the ballot has been rejected, but I imagine people regret the defeat of those early ones.
You may be correct about light-rail headways in the bus tunnel, but I have never read that before. The only explanation I'd seen for the buses being put out of the bus tunnel was that the expansion of the Convention Center would block what had been the buses' north portal to the tunnel.
That second rail tunnel is still years away, isn't it? Or will the rail headways rise to 3 minutes even before then?
Surface-street bus lanes still aren't as good as a bus tunnel -- you agree with that, don't you?
But there's also this:
That downtown bus tunnel was built with rails embedded in its pavement - it was envisioned that it would someday carry trains from the day work began on it.
And in the year I first visited Seattle (2006), it was closed because those rails had to be redesigned to accommodate the light rail trains that would soon run on them - the engineering of those tracks was off somehow.
ISTR that the tunnel leading to the stations under First Hill and the University of Washington connects directly to the bus tunnel too. Aren't trains running through it already?
With more trains running more frequently, there may not be room to accommodate both LRVs and trolleybuses, which would necessitate removing the latter from the facility.
Whatever Seattleites may have thought about those early proposals or the monorail, and regardless how weary they may or may not be of special taxes, I think it's pretty clear now that the region is committed to building a full-blown "light metro" system - or as the advocacy group for its expansion calls it, a "Seattle Subway." That will mean exclusive use of subway tunnels by trains.
(I use the term "light metro" to describe those light rail transit systems that basically have all the characteristics of rapid transit save heavier cars, high platform boarding and maybe full grade separation throughout. San Diego, Dallas and Buffalo all have these (though their systems use the streets downtown; however, Dallas is about to build a downtown subway for its system), and LA's light rail Blue and Green lines also qualify (so may the Gold Line). Seattle's definitely does, and it's fully grade-separated.
That downtown bus tunnel was built with rails embedded in its pavement - it was envisioned that it would someday carry trains from the day work began on it.
And in the year I first visited Seattle (2006), it was closed because those rails had to be redesigned to accommodate the light rail trains that would soon run on them - the engineering of those tracks was off somehow.
ISTR that the tunnel leading to the stations under First Hill and the University of Washington connects directly to the bus tunnel too. Aren't trains running through it already?
With more trains running more frequently, there may not be room to accommodate both LRVs and trolleybuses, which would necessitate removing the latter from the facility.
Whatever Seattleites may have thought about those early proposals or the monorail, and regardless how weary they may or may not be of special taxes, I think it's pretty clear now that the region is committed to building a full-blown "light metro" system - or as the advocacy group for its expansion calls it, a "Seattle Subway." That will mean exclusive use of subway tunnels by trains.
(I use the term "light metro" to describe those light rail transit systems that basically have all the characteristics of rapid transit save heavier cars, high platform boarding and maybe full grade separation throughout. San Diego, Dallas and Buffalo all have these (though their systems use the streets downtown; however, Dallas is about to build a downtown subway for its system), and LA's light rail Blue and Green lines also qualify (so may the Gold Line). Seattle's definitely does, and it's fully grade-separated.
That's true.... I can't remember when I first visited Seattle, but the bus tunnel was there and the light-rail system hadn't opened yet (though indeed the tunnel tracks were in place). It seemed such a brilliant idea -- buses could converge from various routes, and pass through downtown without hindrance from car traffic. And passengers could wait in a well-lit space out of the weather and away from street noise. On a later visit, the buses and rail vehicles were sharing the tunnel. I wonder whether there's been some diminution of bus ridership on the lines that have been moved out of the tunnel, because the passenger experience just can't be as good with surface stops. I'd like to see a second tunnel built, so rail and bus could both continue to be underground in the downtown area. But I suppose after what happened with Bertha, Seattleites don't want to hear any more tunnel ideas.
The UW station is part of a northern extension of the existing line. There are additional lines on the drawing board, but I don't know if construction has even started.
Which I'm looking forward to riding when both open.
But one of the reasons WMATA Metrorail sank to the level it did was because for most of its existence, the agency saw itself as in the business of construction as much as, or maybe even more than, it was in the business of moving people around the National Capital Region quickly and safely.
I don't know whether or not the agency's dysfunctional operating culture has been fixed yet. I hope it's on the way there much like the reconstruction program has progressed. I also know that its pass-the-hat funding formula needs to be but hasn't been.
Edited to add: I should note, however, that the Purple Line is not a WMATA project but an undertaking of Maryland DOT's Maryland Transit Administration.
DC/MD/VA passed a historic metro funding agreement last year.
They now have dough to keep things in a state of good repair once they get everything back to that state. Isn't most of the major reconstruction work done now?
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