Where would you put rapid transit if for every million people in your MSA, you get 10 miles of rapid transit? (metro, suburban)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So that would be one mile per hundred thousand people in your Metropolitan Statistical Area as defined by the census. These can be extensions of currently existing lines, replacements of them, or completely brand new lines. Yes, I understand that's not how things work and there's all kinds of factors to consider, but this is just a thought experiment.
For example, Cleveland list's a metropolitan statistical area population of 2,057,009 which in this hypothetical means laying out an additional 20 miles of rapid transit. For a 14 mile stretch or so stretch, I'd like to see a rapid transit subway that goes from Lakewood where Detroit and Detroit extension split going east under Detroit Avenue until downtown Cleveland and then from there going east on Euclid Avenue before then going east again where Euclid Avenue arches northwards to then go east on Mayfield Avenue into the Coventry Village neighborhood. Along the way, there'd be multiple bus connections along with rail connections from west to east at the Red Line West Boulevard Cudell station, the Blue/Green/WFL Settlers Landing Station, the Red/Blue/Green Tower City station through an underground corridor, and the Red Line's Little Italy/University Circle station.
For the last six miles, I'd think an extension of the WFL southeastwards with the expansion built to rapid transit standards extending down an arc from its current terminus to the E 79th street Red Line stop (about four miles) with a connection at Euclid Avenue to the line mentioned above and the remaining two miles being an eastern branch off that same extension from the WFL current terminus under St. Clair Avenue.
Well for Miami you're talking about 62 miles, which should allow for all of the planned extensions of the metro rail. That's basically what I would do, but this question is really kinda unfair in Miami's favor since it has a massive population (giving it a lot of mileage in your hypothetical) while already having quite a decent transit system. I guess since we are disregarding any eminent domain/ROW/construction issues, I'll just make sure to throw a little spur out to, and then up and down, Miami Beach.
For Jacksonville this is a pretty interesting question. So here I have 16 miles to work with, which is basically just enough for one of the three lines that the city/TPO/planners have been studying for the past two decades. You're telling me, pretty much, that I could pick which line should be built. The northern line, which would connect to riders that need public transit the most, or the SW line which would basically serve as a park & ride for suburban commuters coming in from Clay County, or the SE line which is basically the same but maybe with a few more park and ride stops than the SW trunk. Instead, I say to hell with those. None of them are terribly sexy or exciting, and likely not very effective without the full network in place.
Instead, here are my alternatives and the thought process:
1) The best would be to connect downtown Jax to downtown St Augustine. But this would require more than double the track length. I guess we would be allowed to do it once the Jax metro hits 3.5 Million lol. The hope here is that Virgin Trains expands from South FL up to Jax, and either another operator or Brightline themselves, runs a commuter schedule for commuters between St A and Jax. (Probably with stops at the Avenues, Nocatee and Palencia)
2) Since this distance is too great, we turn our attention to the Beaches. This would probably be the best used line, but was never included in feasibility studies because it's too impractical. The three aforementioned lines all have ROW mostly established, and quite a bit of usable track as well. But to the beaches would connect the two most visited areas for tourists and probably for locals as well. To stay within the 16 mile limit the line would have to run alongside the Beach Blvd path and terminate at Downtown Jax Beach. This makes decent sense but unfortunately completely misses out on the SJTC region, which in addition to being the equal to downtown in terms of employment, is arguably in that top 2 conversation for most visited area for locals. If only we could do around 19 miles of track then we could find a way to connect all three points. Hmm 1.9 M population...maybe in 10 years.
3) Or, it might make sense to just go ahead and connect the SJTC area with downtown. We will have a few miles of track to spare which could extend our system out west into Riverside or Murray Hill and north into Springfield. This could be the best option but those historic neighborhoods would never allow rapid transit. They might welcome some kind of vintage streetcar or light rail option, but not grade separated heavy rail.
4) Let me trade in the 16 miles of rapid transit for just 3 miles of extending the current skyway system. We could push it into the heart of San Marco, get it through Brooklyn into the heart of Riverside, and then west to the stadium district and north into Springfield. That would be more amazing than any of the first three options
For Toronto, it would be pretty similar to what already exists or is planned, which I think for the most part makes sense.
There would be no Sheppard subway though, which in its current form is a waste of a subway line because it's too short and in a pretty suburban area and doesn't have enough connections to other transit routes. If the Sheppard Subway was extended to the NW branch of the Y-U-S line, I think that would help a fair bit, as well as connections to rapid transit along Don Mills and either an extension or connection to rapid transit along Sheppard East in Scarborough.
I also think rapid transit along Eglinton W in Etobicoke shouldn't be that high of a priority compared to other potential routes (Yonge past Finch, and routes further up Don Mills and into Scarborough), and that Dixon Rd might be a better route for North-Central Etobicoke.
Some areas are better served by less expensive commuter rail, which can also stretch much further. Example: Albuquerque and Santa Fe metro areas are about a million combined, which would only yield a 10-mile rapid transit line. Yet they built a commuter rail line ten times as long.
Well for Miami you're talking about 62 miles, which should allow for all of the planned extensions of the metro rail. That's basically what I would do, but this question is really kinda unfair in Miami's favor since it has a massive population (giving it a lot of mileage in your hypothetical) while already having quite a decent transit system. I guess since we are disregarding any eminent domain/ROW/construction issues, I'll just make sure to throw a little spur out to, and then up and down, Miami Beach.
For Jacksonville this is a pretty interesting question. So here I have 16 miles to work with, which is basically just enough for one of the three lines that the city/TPO/planners have been studying for the past two decades. You're telling me, pretty much, that I could pick which line should be built. The northern line, which would connect to riders that need public transit the most, or the SW line which would basically serve as a park & ride for suburban commuters coming in from Clay County, or the SE line which is basically the same but maybe with a few more park and ride stops than the SW trunk. Instead, I say to hell with those. None of them are terribly sexy or exciting, and likely not very effective without the full network in place.
Instead, here are my alternatives and the thought process:
1) The best would be to connect downtown Jax to downtown St Augustine. But this would require more than double the track length. I guess we would be allowed to do it once the Jax metro hits 3.5 Million lol. The hope here is that Virgin Trains expands from South FL up to Jax, and either another operator or Brightline themselves, runs a commuter schedule for commuters between St A and Jax. (Probably with stops at the Avenues, Nocatee and Palencia)
2) Since this distance is too great, we turn our attention to the Beaches. This would probably be the best used line, but was never included in feasibility studies because it's too impractical. The three aforementioned lines all have ROW mostly established, and quite a bit of usable track as well. But to the beaches would connect the two most visited areas for tourists and probably for locals as well. To stay within the 16 mile limit the line would have to run alongside the Beach Blvd path and terminate at Downtown Jax Beach. This makes decent sense but unfortunately completely misses out on the SJTC region, which in addition to being the equal to downtown in terms of employment, is arguably in that top 2 conversation for most visited area for locals. If only we could do around 19 miles of track then we could find a way to connect all three points. Hmm 1.9 M population...maybe in 10 years.
3) Or, it might make sense to just go ahead and connect the SJTC area with downtown. We will have a few miles of track to spare which could extend our system out west into Riverside or Murray Hill and north into Springfield. This could be the best option but those historic neighborhoods would never allow rapid transit. They might welcome some kind of vintage streetcar or light rail option, but not grade separated heavy rail.
4) Let me trade in the 16 miles of rapid transit for just 3 miles of extending the current skyway system. We could push it into the heart of San Marco, get it through Brooklyn into the heart of Riverside, and then west to the stadium district and north into Springfield. That would be more amazing than any of the first three options
Well, the idea is that more people, more transit. It's a really broad hypothetical.
For Miami, I looked up the proposed extensions of Metro Rail:
Quote:
The 13.6 mi (21.9 km) Biscayne/Northeast Corridor following U.S. Route 1 (Biscayne Boulevard) from Government Center up to the Broward/Miami-Dade county line in Aventura.
The 9.5 mi (15.3 km) North Corridor up NW 27 Avenue to the county line.
The 17.2 mi (27.7 km) East–West Corridor from Government Center west to the Florida International University main campus in University Park, as well as east from Government Center to the Port of Miami.
The 5.1 mi (8.2 km) BayLink from Historic Overtown/Lyric Theater station to South Beach, Miami Beach.
The South Link, a 21 mi (34 km) extension of the Green Line from Dadeland South to Florida City.
The 4.5 mi (7.2 km) Douglas Road extension from Douglas Road station to the Miami Intermodal Center.
The 15 mi (24 km) (West) Kendall Corridor down Kendall Drive from Dadeland North station west to West Kendall and north to the FIU main campus.
About 85 miles, so pretty close to the additional amount. These all look about right though if ~20 mile were be to throw out, then I'm guessing truncating parts of the longer westwards and southwards extensions probably make the most sense.
I'm not familiar with Jacksonville at all. Is SJTC the St Johns Town Center? I can see a rapid transit line there making for a lot of TOD since there's a huge amount of surface parking lot space that could be converted. If it's a massive employment area, then it makes sense since you'd want the commuting population the most since that's two trips a day for over three hundred days a year. Maybe something from Jacksonville's train station (which hopefully becomes more useful soon) to downtown Jacksonville and then SJTC? That works out to probably just shy of 16 miles from google maps (again though, I don't know Jacksonville very well). Maybe with the slight remainder, there could be a spur line / branch from downtown Jacksonville to what seems to be called South Bank paralleling Main Street?
Philadelphia would get about 60 miles of new rapid transit, more than enough to complete the entire system A. Merritt Taylor laid out in 1913, only minus the downtown loop subway.
We could probably build PATCO Corridors A (Moorestown) and C (Woodbury)as well. Or maybe only one of them, in which case Moorestown.
Philadelphia would get about 60 miles of new rapid transit, more than enough to complete the entire system A. Merritt Taylor laid out in 1913, only minus the downtown loop subway.
We could probably build PATCO Corridors A (Moorestown) and C (Woodbury)as well. Or maybe only one of them, in which case Moorestown.
There has been talk of extending it past its Lindenwold terminal ever since it opened 50 years ago. It would be great to see some action.
In Boston, 40 or 50 miles of track improvement wouldn’t make much of a dent.
I’d fix the worst problems. North Station to South Station rail connector with 8 tracks.
Subway from South Station to Logan Airport
Rebuild the downtown part of the subway system so the lines all interconnect with all the sharp corners eliminated and much wider tunnels.
would you take 20 -30 of those miles and extend the blue line north, red line west and orange line north? i think adding 1-2 stops each helps with massive traffic congestion.
60 miles should be just about enough mileage for me to complete the subway system I've designed for Philadelphia, minus the trolleys:
Lines:
Broad Street Trunk: Broad Street Line (Local)*: Fern Rock to Navy Yard via local Broad Street Line (Express)*: Cheltenham-Ogontz to Navy Yard via express to Walnut-Locust; local to South Philadelphia Broad-Ridge Spur: Fern Rock TC to 8th and Market via Ridge Avenue Chestnut Hill Subway*: Chestnut Hill to Walnut-Locust via express (new interlocking to be constructed south of Erie) Roosevelt Boulevard Subway-Elevated*: Southampton Road to Navy Yard via local
Others: Market-Frankford Line*: 69th Street TC to Frankford TC Woodland-Frankford Line*: Darby TC to Frankford and Rhawn PATCO*: Health Complex to Lindenwold, NJ via Locust Street Double Crosstown (Yellow): Ivy Ridge to Oregon Avenue via 52nd Street and Washington Avenue Andorra Line (Purple)*: Center City Loop to Ridge and Northwestern via Ridge Avenue 29th Street Line (Light Blue)*: Center City Loop to Wissahickon TC via 29th Street Allegheny Avenue Crosstown (Light Blue): Center City Loop to Richmond and Allegheny via Allegheny Avenue Eastwick Line (Fuschia)*:Center City Loop to Philadelphia International Airport via 25th Street Passyunk Line (Pink): Melrose Park Station to 25th and Passyunk via 5th Street Girard Avenue Crosstown (Light Red): City and Haverford to Rising Sun and Cottman via Girard Avenue
*=Priority new line/extension
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
