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I don't see how anyone can live in a place with no sidewalks. I'd go crazy.
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Originally Posted by hsw
Grew up in car-centric suburbs
Have lived/worked in central urban settings (incl Manhattan) during my career....have always driven everywhere...from garage at my home to garage at office; to dinner a few blks away....and drive to suburbs on wkends if need to run errands
Prefer safety, convenience, comfort and pleasure of driving own car vs any other mode of transport in any urban region....IMO, walkability is an absurd concept in a world of imperfect weather and risk of violent street crime
there's no way you never walked in Manhattan. where would you find parking? and if you parked in one of those "park" parking lots in the middle of manhattan, it was pretty far from you destination, wasn't it?
or did you get a limo everywhere you went? what is it? are you one of those elite stars who forgot how to live amung real people?
interesting...seems like personal preferences are divided, but slightly more in favor of walkability over car-dependence.
From the OP's initial question, i wondered whether the comparison was to be made between major urban centers like manhattan and DT chicago versus the rural natural wilderness of Wyoming or something. That's a really major culture shock to me. Going from suburban sprawl to a walkable-city (that could be small and walkable like Savannah, GA) is different, though interesting as well.
Anyway, born and raised in Jacksonville, one of the most sprawling big cities in the US, I definitely prefer urban, walkable environments at this point in my life. I enjoy and appreciate every other kind of atmosphere too, but wouldn't want to live in a rural area long term. Not sure if this is because of my true disposition or if it's simply because a dense urban environment is an exciting change from the first 23 years of my life.
Neighborhoods and homes are already built to the tenets in the article (except maybe the in home juice bar). And, what does the ninth tenet "Healthful Food" have to do with building healthful places?
People already have the choice to walk or bike to stores. Guess what? They don't do it. Why? Because nobody wants to (or has the time to) spend 45 minutes to accomplish a ten minute task. And, for most places, the weather is a problem many months of the year. And, who goes shopping for one carryable item? Most people shop for several bags of groceries or oversized items at Home Depot. And, most people plan their errands efficiently, stopping at store A, then Store B, then Doctor office C, then library D, the dry cleaners E, then pickup little Johnny at daycare E. And, most people stop on the way home from work to accomplish many errands like grocercies which doesn't use anymore gas and allows them to load several bags of groceries in their car - not easy if you are cycling or walking.
So, this sounds like market research results from people who "think" they want all this stuff but in reality would never use them (like double ovens, formal dining rooms, and formal living rooms when they already have a family room).
Neighborhoods and homes are already built to the tenets in the article (except maybe the in home juice bar). And, what does the ninth tenet "Healthful Food" have to do with building healthful places?
People already have the choice to walk or bike to stores. Guess what? They don't do it. Why? Because nobody wants to (or has the time to) spend 45 minutes to accomplish a ten minute task. And, for most places, the weather is a problem many months of the year. And, who goes shopping for one carryable item? Most people shop for several bags of groceries or oversized items at Home Depot. And, most people plan their errands efficiently, stopping at store A, then Store B, then Doctor office C, then library D, the dry cleaners E, then pickup little Johnny at daycare E. And, most people stop on the way home from work to accomplish many errands like grocercies which doesn't use anymore gas and allows them to load several bags of groceries in their car - not easy if you are cycling or walking.
So, this sounds like market research results from people who "think" they want all this stuff but in reality would never use them (like double ovens, formal dining rooms, and formal living rooms when they already have a family room).
Hopefully someone in this scenario has time to make another stop at Gym F. People often associate being overweight with laziness, but some of the most hard-working and busy people I've met have had weight issues. I know there are skinny people in less walkable areas, but it's nice to be able to get exercise while being outdoors rather than being restricted to a gym.
I grew up in a small town in NJ. Walked to school for most of those years, my parents would routinely send me on my bike down to the convenience store to pick up last minute things. As I got older I would ride my bike to the beach, to the bigger town a few miles away, and to the train station to get to NYC. It was easy to walk around my town but it was small without much to actually walk to other than friends' houses so bikes and trains were useful until we were old enough to drive.
My parents drove a lot - to get to work, to run errands, etc. - but I never spent that much time in the car and when I had to I really didn't enjoy it. I got my permit when I was 16, full license at 17, car at 18 and owned a car for most of my 20s. I spent most of that time living in NC or SC so there really wasn't much of a choice. I ditched the car when I got to Philly and never looked back.
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Originally Posted by Cheektowaga_Chester
People already have the choice to walk or bike to stores. Guess what? They don't do it. Why? Because nobody wants to (or has the time to) spend 45 minutes to accomplish a ten minute task.
If it takes 45 minutes to accomplish on foot what you can do in ten minutes with a car then it's not really a choice, is it?
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And, for most places, the weather is a problem many months of the year.
Slightly more than 1/3 of the country lives in the Sunbelt where winter isn't an issue at all. Over 75% of the country live south of the 41st parallel (NYC to Northern California) where, at most, the weather can be unpleasant from late November until late March but that's hardly every day of that 3-4 month stretch.
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And, who goes shopping for one carryable item? Most people shop for several bags of groceries or oversized items at Home Depot. And, most people plan their errands efficiently, stopping at store A, then Store B, then Doctor office C, then library D, the dry cleaners E, then pickup little Johnny at daycare E.
If you live somewhere where you can walk to most of those places easily you really don't spend that much time planning chained trips like that. It's just not an ordeal to walk 2-5 blocks and most of that stuff you'd pass once or twice a day anyway so you can really stop by whenever it's necessary. Personally, I only make large grocery trips when I needed to stock up on staples - the non-perishable stuff. Other than that I usually just buy what I need two days at a time.
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And, most people stop on the way home from work to accomplish many errands like grocercies which doesn't use anymore gas and allows them to load several bags of groceries in their car - not easy if you are cycling or walking.
Like i said, there's really no reason to have multiple bags of groceries if you're shopping a few times per week but, on the special occasion that you do you just hail a cab.
Slightly more than 1/3 of the country lives in the Sunbelt where winter isn't an issue at all. Over 75% of the country live south of the 41st parallel (NYC to Northern California) where, at most, the weather can be unpleasant from late November until late March but that's hardly every day of that 3-4 month stretch.
People can still walk fine in most of the wintertime, except for perhaps are snowstorms, I don't see how weather is much of a factor. Snow also can also make driving a pain.
Slightly more than 1/3 of the country lives in the Sunbelt where winter isn't an issue at all. Over 75% of the country live south of the 41st parallel (NYC to Northern California) where, at most, the weather can be unpleasant from late November until late March but that's hardly every day of that 3-4 month stretch.
I lived in Houston for 26 years. We had no choice but to drive to anything. As for the sunbelt, even if it is walkable, no one wants to be out in the extended summer. In Houston, we faced an unbearable period of heat and humidity from May to Sept. Here in Philly, winter in not an obstacle - I just bundle up and get out.
As for this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheektowaga_Chester
People already have the choice to walk or bike to stores. Guess what? They don't do it. Why? Because nobody wants to (or has the time to) spend 45 minutes to accomplish a ten minute task. And, for most places, the weather is a problem many months of the year. And, who goes shopping for one carryable item? Most people shop for several bags of groceries or oversized items at Home Depot.
Not sure where you live - sunbelt? From my experience in Houston, even those who could walk don't - they hopped in the car to drive 2 - 3 blocks. Walking is just a foreign concept in sunbelt cities. As for task times, we can walk to the grocery store and tote back four large re-cycle bags in the same or less time it took us to drive to one and drive home in Houston - traffic, lights and parking all add up.
While our lifestyle is not everyone's choice, the daunting picture you paint does not fit everyone either.
I hated growing up in the suburbs because of the isolation. Very lonely and depressing experience. You are stuck in your house all day long. You can't go anywhere because you aren't old enough to drive. You can't visit your friends very often. And even if you are old enough that doesn't mean you can drive. You still have to buy the car. But you have to work to save up the money for one....but you can't work without a car. So you're screwed. Catch-22. The suburbs are inherently antisocial. They tend to isolate and alienate people from one another. You can't walk anywhere so they are also very unhealthy. People tend to be very overweight and obese.
People can still walk fine in most of the wintertime, except for perhaps are snowstorms, I don't see how weather is much of a factor. Snow also can also make driving a pain.
I don't disagree. I've certainly walked in all weather. I was just pointing out that people always make the argument "oh that's great for 4 months a year but the rest of the time no one will use it" but in reality most people in the country don't live in Maine or Minnesota.
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