Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Does it bother anyone else that there have two highly urban and very linear transit corridors in the Northeast between Boston and DC and then another one close by in Canada between Windsor and Quebec City and yet neither corridor is linked by high speed rail between each other or among themselves? The argument that it works in China, Japan and Europe is that they have very dense populations along the line and that's certainly not true of the US and Canada as a whole, but the plurality of their population is concentrated in these two highly linear corridors. What's more is that each of the major cities along this line have fairly dense urban areas and decent mass transit systems. It seems odd that I almost never hear about any drive to try to get these two systems to operate with each other.
To be honest, the Quebec-Windsor corridor is not that dense. I'd put it at about 150 people/km2. There's a 450km stretch between Oshawa and Montreal where the biggest city is Kingston (~150,000 people), and the next biggest are Cornwall and Belleville at around 50,000. There is Ottawa, but it's kind of off to the side. From Montreal to Quebec City, a 250km stretch, there's only one city worth stopping at, Trois Rivieres, which has about 150,000 people. I think the money would be better spent improving transit in Southern Ontario and Greater Montreal (subways, commuter rail, etc).
The Bos-Wash corridor is denser and might be able to support high speed rail, as with San Francisco-San Diego... maybe include Sacramento in there too.
To be honest, the Quebec-Windsor corridor is not that dense. I'd put it at about 150 people/km2. There's a 450km stretch between Oshawa and Montreal where the biggest city is Kingston (~150,000 people), and the next biggest are Cornwall and Belleville at around 50,000. There is Ottawa, but it's kind of off to the side.
I think that all of the plans for Toronto-Montreal HSR include an alignment slightly to the north in order to serve Ottawa. Ottawa-Gatineau has about 1.3 million people.
I think that all of the plans for Toronto-Montreal HSR include an alignment slightly to the north in order to serve Ottawa. Ottawa-Gatineau has about 1.3 million people.
Nonetheless, that's still about 340km from Oshawa to Ottawa with mostly just forests and farms in between. I think Philadelphia-Cleveland, Milwaukee-Cincinnati, Cleveland-Louisville, Raleigh-Birmingham, Mobile-Houston-Dallas and Vancouver-Eugene are all corridors which, relatively to their distance, have comparable populations (if not greater).
Maybe Ottawa-Montreal would make sense for high or at least higher speed rail though, since they're quite close together. Is there a lot of travel between them? Especially city centre to city centre travel that would be undertaken by businessmen and tourists?
My impression is that for Toronto the main cities there is a lot of travel to are Ottawa (government), New York(finance) and Montreal(other business and tourism). What's it like for Montreal or Ottawa?
Nonetheless, that's still about 340km from Oshawa to Ottawa with mostly just forests and farms in between. I think Philadelphia-Cleveland, Milwaukee-Cincinnati, Cleveland-Louisville, Raleigh-Birmingham, Mobile-Houston-Dallas and Vancouver-Eugene are all corridors which, relatively to their distance, have comparable populations (if not greater).
Maybe Ottawa-Montreal would make sense for high or at least higher speed rail though, since they're quite close together. Is there a lot of travel between them? Especially city centre to city centre travel that would be undertaken by businessmen and tourists?
My impression is that for Toronto the main cities there is a lot of travel to are Ottawa (government), New York(finance) and Montreal(other business and tourism). What's it like for Montreal or Ottawa?
Toronto-Kingston-Ottawa-Montreal would be viable.
As for main destinations from Montreal, they would be Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto, New York and Boston.
From Ottawa it would be Montreal, Toronto and New York.
As for main destinations from Montreal, they would be Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto, New York and Boston.
From Ottawa it would be Montreal, Toronto and New York.
Do you think the Toronto-Montreal stretch is more viable than the other North American ones I listed? Or just that North America is way behind across the board?
It would be interesting to know how the population along the different corridors in North America and Europe compare though.
If you look at the metros such a train would likely stop at (Toronto, Oshawa, Belleville, Kingston, Ottawa, Montreal), the total population of the metros is about 11.2 million over 610km.
The Paris-Amsterdam corridor, which includes the Paris, Lille-Kortrijk, Brussels, Antwerp, Rotterdam and Amsterdam has more than 21 million in those metros over about 550km. That corridor is probably the most populated in Europe along with the Rhine Valley though. I haven't gone through how the less populated high speed rail corridors in Europe would compare.
Do you think the Toronto-Montreal stretch is more viable than the other North American ones I listed? Or just that North America is way behind across the board?
It would be interesting to know how the population along the different corridors in North America and Europe compare though.
If you look at the metros such a train would likely stop at (Toronto, Oshawa, Belleville, Kingston, Ottawa, Montreal), the total population of the metros is about 11.2 million over 610km.
The Paris-Amsterdam corridor, which includes the Paris, Lille-Kortrijk, Brussels, Antwerp, Rotterdam and Amsterdam has more than 21 million in those metros over about 550km. That corridor is probably the most populated in Europe along with the Rhine Valley though. I haven't gone through how the less populated high speed rail corridors in Europe would compare.
Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal is certainly not more viable than Bosnywash, and probably not LA-SF. Although there are factors like the quality of highway links. LA-SF has multiple highway links whereas Montreal-Toronto has only one highway that is only four lanes wide for most of the distance...
In any event, if you look at France's TGV network, it certainly has corridors with less population than Tor-Ott-Mtl. Sure, most lines radiate from Paris which has more people than Tor-Mtl combined but it has branches that can go from two cities neither of which are bigger than Toronto or even Montreal.
Some of the TGV lines in France look like they would be the equivalent of having a direct TGV from New York City to Syracuse or NYC to Allentown.
Interesting, it looks like just about every urban area with more than 500,000 people has TGV service, and the TGV seems to be running a profit. So what's holding back investment from either the public or private sector? The capital costs of building the network? Better highways and airports?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
