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SergeantL Since you refuse to check out the sopurces for Iron and Washington counties, I say your investigative skills are lacking and selective to only support your small premise. To back my statments up lets put it like you would but switch the area. Instead of Price being the model for the whole state, I will use Lafayette and Happy Valley Rd. Since there is hardly any crime along that area, therefore there is no real crime in the whole of the bay area. Same type of logic. and I know you will agree that it doesn't add up. Just because the OTC drugs such as Claratin D have been limited in sales like every where else, does not mean that Meth has stopped being produced. The amount of Claritin or other drugs similar to make meth and the expense to seperate out the ingredients needed from those OTC drugs again doesn't add up. You would need a semiload of Claritin to make enough seperated chemicals to do any kind of meth production. Beavis and Butthead may know how to make the meth if they have the chemcials already seperated. I doubt that beavis and butthead will know enough chemistry to do the seperation of said chemicals from claitin to make the meth. Again the cost of purchasing claritin in the first place to get enough for meth production would be so expensive as to make the production beyond what beavis and butthead could ever hope to afford. It was an over reaction by the gov. when they labled said OTC drugs dangerous. How do I know all this? Degree in molecular bio chem. 4 years of chemistry At U of Ut.
As to the low murder rate in Utah, How many of those have happened in Washington co. It might surprise you the percentage. there are around 80K people here but the murder rate for this area is not good. violent crime is on the rise in Utah. SLC has a very bad gang problem. Not just the crips and the bloods, but many more gangs of different ethnic backgrounds. Mayor Browning of Enoch if you call him who is also the police chief will tell you about the gang problem in SLC having been a police officer there for a long time.
Blondie, I have other fish to fry in my life and calling various police chiefs and newspapers is not one of them. I don’t get paid to investigate anymore; however, if you would be willing to pay me my normal consulting fee of $250 and hour, I would be happy to make all the phone calls you like.
Next, If you think the crime rate is horrible in Utah, then so be it. My perception of Utah after working in the sewers of California is totally different. I have also looked at the UCR data for the state, I know how to analyze that data and understand the subtleties and politics surrounding the game of reporting. All of this tells me Utah is a cake walk. Oh, and if you don’t think PDs play games with reporting, I own the Golden Gate Bridge and would be willing to sell it to you.
I travel through SLC every two weeks. I have friends all over Salt Lake and Utah counties, and none of them are screaming about any major problems—other than traffic— or are they applying for concealed weapons permits. None of this means there are not problems; they are simply not present in the volume to which I am accustomed. I have no problem walking anywhere in the major metropolitan areas of the SL Valley at any time. Now, you’re from Walnut Creek; can you say that about Vallejo, Richmond, Oakland, Martinez, Pittsburg, San Francisco, and huge swaths of San Jose? Could you live comfortably in Hunters Point, the Tenderloin, or South of Market? Finally, even though the places I have mentioned are bad, I was never a victim of a crime when it was necessary for me to visit one of those places off-duty.
Next, what you don’t know are the particulars of any crime. As Trebek wrote, many homicides are puke on puke or as I stated, cleansing the gene pool. The next most popular form of homicide are domestic homicides were family members kill each other.
Finally, here’s some food for thought. The number of law enforcement deaths in the United States for 2006 was 150, and over half of those were accidental. Cops go looking for trouble and yet less than 75 officers were killed in the United States as a result of criminal activity. Since you and other citizens aren’t looking for trouble, I am reasonably certain you won’t find it.
Then Sergeant do not ask for facts if you are not willing to do a little fact finding. It also shows me that you are unwilling to find the information. When people like Lisa post what they know first hand you dismiss it and ask for proof. You do not take first hand anecdotal info as truth since you and your expeirnces in California are much more knowledgable. If this is your way of dealing with sources. fine. Then do not put others down who do have the first hand knowledge. As to the crime, granted it is less, but so is the population. Density has a lot to do with it. I personally leave my door unlocked unless I'm sleeping. That is if I'm home during the day or not. What I said is not that there is more crime here, but there is crime. The worst being the meth labs. Which you dismiss out of hand. The spectrum newspaper is free online. That shouldn't cost you much other than time.
Other people are also ones that drive around the state. We all who live here have friends, some even relatives who live in this state. I've been tied to this state one way or antoehr since birth, even though I was not born here. I guess 60 years of friends and relatives (some who are past gov officials like a Govenrnor) don't count for much unless you are only a 1 year resident of Price Utah. BTW I only spent 15 years living in Walnut Creek Ca. so I don't know about that place either.
Blondie, although I applaud your enthusiasm, I don’t recall asking you for any facts. I do recall asking you about a particular real estate development in Walnut Creek. I do recall asking Lisa whether she could lead me to the source data for per capita meth addiction in Utah, but I don’t recall anything else. Nothing was implied by my request.
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Originally Posted by Blondie-Rabbit
It also shows me that you are unwilling to find the information. When people like Lisa post what they know first hand you dismiss it and ask for proof.
Again, Bondie, I asked her for the source data, that does not mean I don’t believe her or dismiss her opinion; however, such does not negate my opinion either.
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Originally Posted by Blondie-Rabbit
You do not take first hand anecdotal info as truth since you and your experiences in California are much more knowledgeable.
I posted my experiences in CA for no other reason that to make a comparison between CA and UT to illustrate what I consider to be an excessive or “huge” (Lisa Post) problem in CA relative to what I think are very manageable problems in UT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondie-Rabbit
Then do not put others down who do have the first hand knowledge.
Blondie, if you can find one disparaging word or comment that I used to put anyone down, I would like to see it. Disagreement is not putting someone down, but if there is something I wrote that did put someone else down, I will repent immediately.
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Originally Posted by Blondie-Rabbit
The worst being the meth labs. Which you dismiss out of hand.
I dismiss nothing, Blondie, we simply have different perceptions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondie-Rabbit
BTW I only spent 15 years living in Walnut Creek Ca. so I don't know about that place either.
OK, sorry, I didn’t know. I will avoid using such illustrations in the future.
Im not ruling out that there are those people out there who are deranged but I am honestly suprised that there is THAT MUCH crime in Utah. I live in Utah county and the most we have out here is some kid stealing his grandmothers car!
Meth is a huge problem in Utah! Especially among women. The Govenor sites us as being the 3rd highest ranking state in the Country. It affects all walks of life and and is more addictive than crack cocaine. Sarg, comparing California to Utah is like comparing oranges to apples. Wake up and smell the cocoa!
Meth is a huge problem in Utah! Especially among women. The Govenor sites us as being the 3rd highest ranking state in the Country. It affects all walks of life and and is more addictive than crack cocaine. Sarg, comparing California to Utah is like comparing oranges to apples. Wake up and smell the cocoa!
The Governor can "cite" all he wants. The first thing one learns in statistics is that numbers can be manipulated in a variety of ways, and most people do not interpret them correctly. Next, the Governor does not "cite" his source nor can he show the data—being plural—are correct. Addiction rates are based on a loose and vague assemblage of various factors, none of which are terribly accurate.
One may be able to say that based on arrests, Utah may have the third highest per capita arrest rate for meth use in the nation, but this still does not prove Utah has the third highest addiction or use rate in the nation. It only speaks of the number of arrests. The problem with arrest statistics lies in the fact that arrests are counted individually. In short, doper “A” could be arrested 12 times a year for possession, and the statistics end up showing there were twelve arrests for possession rather than one person arrested twelve times. As you can see, such procedures skew the results. This is not done to purposely deceive the public; police records departments do not have the time to do anything other than report raw numbers to the FBI, which compiles the Uniform Crime Report (UCR) each year. Oh, and also understand that reporting to the UCR is strictly voluntary. There are a significant number of agencies in the US that do not have the staff or time to compile data for reporting.
If you believe Utah has a huge meth problem then so be it. You will no doubt be willing to pay more in taxes to increase your police department’s ability to combat this horrible problem. You will be happy to pay even more taxes to support social programs aimed at prevention and counseling. You will see the need to increase your taxes to pay for additional courts to process the increased number of arrests generated by the police, who are using your additional tax money to make more drug arrests. You will then see the need to pay more money to build more prisons and treatment facilities to house the increased numbers of those arrested and convicted of drug offenses.
But on a positive note!!! The FBI's UCR again lists Cache valley as having the lowest crime rate for a metro area it's size. We were lowest three years ago but then bumped up nine spots last year (probably because we had a gun related homocide). This year we are again ranked lowest wooohooo. If you need my source it is the Herald Tribune which is quoting from the UCR. No, I don't intened to look it up myself even though it comes from a media outlet. I don't think reading the paper is anecdotal.
i just want you all to know i went to junior high and high school in price and i can assure you there are plenty of crips members. as innocent as price looks the drugs trading problem there is insane. if you go there just be aware of everyone around you. people can get in alot of trouble if they aren't careful.
first off: lisa from debary, do you know any of the harris family over on lake drive?
second, i would say that this is devolving into a pointless argument that is losing its perspective even as it grows. we all know that there have been meth problems in utah--i don't think that it was sarge's point to say that there aren't any problems.
there are gang problems, and there is violence, child abuse, suicide, depression, and tons of other problems in utah as well. but there are not anywhere near the numbers in utah as there are in other areas of the country, or other areas of the world for that matter.
i went to west high school in slc. good school, but it has its problems, including one of the dirtier reputations for a utah school. i remember the cops hanging out at school, waiting for fights, drugs, and weapons. but mostly what they did was hang out with the students, and scatter the groups of kids that smoked out behind the tech building.
there wasn't much else for them to do.
in some of the other states that i have been to, there are a lot more cops, and a lot more problems for the cops to be handling. i was in richmond, va when it was suffering from a particularely unhealthy homicide rate. i am not sure what its numbers are now, but there were neighborhoods that were not safe for anyone to enter if you were not already a member of the gang there.
i downtown slc, in the areas most resembling the ghettoes of other states, i never felt significantly threatened or endangered in my youth. i (a scrawny white boy) could walk into any neighborhood in the city without feeling liek i'd entered a hostile environment. try saying that in some of the areas of cali or virginia. i'm not even going to mention new york, cuz i've never been there yet (though my wife likes it).
then there is the rest of the world. the mideast, central and south america.
for all of the problems that we have (yes--we have problems) the states is a paradise. and utah is one of the cleaner, greener sections of this paradise.
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